Indians For Guns

Hi Friends,
I have couple of questions and need clarification.... please guru`s... help...

1. Recently just out of curiasity, I opend my M200 as it was`nt give good performance. After removing the spring (gsmith), I could not remove the piston by any meanse. It is very hard even to push inside. Then I remembered the thread by kb100 (Fellow IFG Memebr) and Inspired by him, I wanted to get the chamber polished.
So guys please tell me how to remove the piston assembly...? ( I tried pulling it out by metel wire... but no result...)

2. Please guide me to remove and mount O - ring for IHP35

3. Please let me know, by using which oil the leather washer (gsmith) gets soft...? is there any requirement to prime the leather washer before using it in to the rifle....(IHP/AIMCO)? if yes... please guide me... how to prime the same.
and how to achieve perfect seal while and after inserting the leather washer....?

4. If I remove the piston assembly with washer, is it okay to use the same washer again....?

4. In a guide "How to disassemble IHP", I did not find the information about detaching barrel assebmly from chamber and piston assembly. Please guide me through....

Thank You,
Krishna.

1. no idea - havent worked on m200 maybe someone who has worked on it can help.

2. by O ring do you mean the washer that is at the breech surrounding the pellet loading chamber? if that is what it is you can remove it with a thin screwdriver and get an oilseal from any local hardware shop.

3. Leather washers should be soaked in oil (2t works fine) overnight but before installing it remove any excess oil on it. To achieve a perfect seal - ensure that the insides of the power tube are free from any scratches and are smooth - the washer size should be an appropriate one for the model.

4. Usually once the piston assembly is opened the washer is changed - but if the washer is in good condition (no nicks, damages etc) then you can use the same - but a change is better.

5. to remove the barrel - first break the barrel and then remove the screws.
Let me know if you need more info
/s/

Hi Sniper,

Thank you very much for your reply.

M200 is very similar to IHP in structure but not at all in quality. I have posted another quiry to kb100 regarding the mechining of chamber, as the pellet blown out of M200 is rebounding from a 1/4 inch thick plywood just at the distance of 10 to 15 feets. I had replaced the spring and washer of original M200 to Gsmith ones from KOVI shop.

Even after changing the washer and spring the performance is as I said above. So I wanted to remove the piston from the chamber and get it polished. But its not coming out. Please help.

If I take it to lathe, what should I instruct the operator about the mechining of chamber and piston....? (This question I have asked kb100 also)

Also is it possible to polish the power tube with out the help from lathe...? I got all required tools at my garage. SOme from forum was giving an idea about using the combination of drilling mechine and fine sand paper/scroch bright... does it work....?

Please help.

Regards,
Krishna

You have PM

hey Kitty,
problem could be with plinking plywood. laminated plywood is pretty damn tough, and a 15 ft, a pellet migh bounce off. Best thing to do here, go for a block of dealwood, and if this is not embedded with pellet then you can think of an updgrade.

things that can be done,

1) Spring change, (gsmith spring is not bad, if the power tube is of same dimension of ihp then this is good, if not excellent.) to JM Spring, Tarantula or E3650.
2) synthetic seal , (from JM or target tune). look for snug fit in the tube. a leather seal which fits the spring tube well can do lot better than a bad fit but far more expensive synthetic seal.
3) polishing the power tube - not many laithe guys will do it for you, and even if they do, they might over do it. all you need is a long screw driver (that can reach the far end of tube) and Scotch Brite. Yes it works like a charm, use a bit of lapping compound and steel wool if you really feel the need, clean with diesel and let dry.
4) breech seal change, i infer this is what you have addressed as o ring, aopply generous quality of talcum powder around the ring and try a few shots (with pellet), that should tell you if there is a seal failure. Replace the seal if needed, a cost and functionally effective method is discussed here, http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8433
5 crowning of barrel, if the crowning is unacceptable for airgun standards, then you may need to modify that, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorpZlG28fI will give you some ideas.

also,

the piston from the chamber and get it polished

not a great idea, as this doesn't come in contact with the tube at anypoint, its the washer which rubs the wall. there is some advantage posted sometime back that the pistons reduced weight can improve the performance, but i would say too much work for very less impact..

PS: if the Piston is not budging, it could be due to the good fit of the leather, use a screw driver to push the wedge on the piston arm, or use a line to pull from the open end of tube..

Regards
Thomas

Hi Sniper and Thomas,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I have 3 air rifles all together. I changed spring and seal for all of them at a time. My air rifles are IHP 35 .22 , Aimco M200 35 .22, another one is a local made 35 .22 purchased 3 years ago just for Rs.1,600/- in bangalore.

when I changed springs and washers to gsmith`s and shot at the distance of 15 feet approx, IHP pierced 1 inch thick plywood and hit the wall behind.

Local made air gun punched a nice hole and the pellet got embedded in to the same 1 inch thick ply.

But this AIMCO M200 bounced from 1 inch, 1/2 inch and even 1/4 inch thick ply`s.

So I decided to get the power tube polished.
++++++++++++++++++++

With regard to breech seal, I will try this nice idea of yours and if there is a leak and if i need to change breech seal, is it possible to use the seal just out of the new box or is there any thing that I need to do before like cutting it to the appropriate size etc...?
++++++++++++++++++++++++

drilling several holes from a drilling mechine in to the piston may reduse the weight of piston. Will it increase the performance...?

++++++++++++++++++++++

Where can I get trantula spring in bangalore...?

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"if the Piston is not budging, it could be due to the good fit of the leather, use a screw driver to push the wedge on the piston arm, or use a line to pull from the open end of tube.."

I did`nt understand it..

Thank you very much for such a speedy replies and thanks to you all guys again.

Regards,
Krishna.

hey Kitty you are welcome, Sniper might have a bit more of info on it, he has tried way too many things..

kitty wrote:
when I changed springs and washers to gsmith`s and shot at the distance of 15 feet approx, IHP pierced 1 inch thick plywood and hit the wall behind.
Local made air gun punched a nice hole and the pellet got embedded in to the same 1 inch thick ply.
this is cool

But this AIMCO M200 bounced from 1 inch, 1/2 inch and even 1/4 inch thick ply`s.

So I decided to get the power tube polished. Cool, and you should do..
++++++++++++++++++++

With regard to breech seal, I will try this nice idea of yours and if there is a leak and if i need to change breech seal, is it possible to use the seal just out of the new box or is there any thing that I need to do before like cutting it to the appropriate size etc...?

sure, if there is a leak, you can get replacement seals from most dealers, or you can use the method mentioned in the link in my last post, i myself have used it, the lpg tube seal held good for 1000 + when i changed it ,

++++++++++++++++++++++++

drilling several holes from a drilling mechine in to the piston may reduse the weight of piston. Will it increase the performance...?
something that i havent tried myself, but i thinkour fellow member pkjeetesh had done it on his IHP 35 .177, i couldnt verify the science behind this,
but find the details here, http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8009
pm pkjeetesh for info..
.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Where can I get trantula spring in bangalore...?
order it online at http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com, Jim Macari has the best products, his website is friendly and his delivery is fast!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.

"if the Piston is not budging, it could be due to the good fit of the leather, use a screw driver to push the wedge on the piston arm, or use a line to pull from the open end of tube.."

I did`nt understand it..
no worries, look at the picture below, and understand that there is a piston above but inside the tube.. "thanks to IFGian for the original pic.."


push the wedge through the cut in the tube, or get a strong line to pull out using the wedge to tug..


hope this helps..

Thomas

Hi Thomas... wow truly an amazing reply....

and Yes sniper is kind enough to offer me personal suggestion via phone... thanks Sniper....

Thomas, I tried the method you told. Seems wedge has worn out and not providig a nitch for screw driver. (I wonder I have`nt shot even 1000 pellets from it ) once again i ll try to use a strong line to do the same.

Regards,
Krishna,

Screw driver method can damage the wedge if tried too hard, use a fishing line to tug from the open end of spring tube. check if the air exit at the closed end of tube is not obstructed, Also add a bit of lube from there, this should lubricate the washer walls and make the slide out a bit easy.

the wedge wear can be an issue, as it can cause misfire, if you havent had issues before and it is not worn out in this try then you dont have anything to fear. It just could be that the wege was crafted this way..

Regards
Thomas

What you can use is the Plastic pipes which are now getting used in the sanitary fitting instead of the GI pipes.
I had 1 lying in my house, i picked that up, wrapped a layer of news paper and then i put the No 600 sand pape.
you will get this paper in the shop which deals with the car denting painting stuff, this is much finer than the No 0 that you generally get in hardware shop, its cost about Rs15/
Wrap this paper on the pipe and using the circular movement along with back forth will help clean and give smooth finish to the cylinder.
Best part in using this pipe is that its strong and straight, but its not heavy as GI pipe so u can you use your hands only to do the grinding.
Secondly its softer than GI pipe, so if by any change you surface is exposed to the pipe in process of grinding, it wont damage the surface.
If you have access to lathe, you can take the pipe and the sand paper to the lathe and they will do the grinding for you.

Hi,
even better idea... will try that.

Thomas, I did`nt have fishing line so I used thin binding wire and wound around wedge and using the combination of my 2 bench wises and a c clamp, I pulled the piston assembly smoothly. now need to try on Sa_ali`s idea.

Regards,
Krishna.

Hi Guys...

Its feed back time...
the operation is on my Aimco`s M200

I pulled was finally able to pull out the piston assembly using thin wire.
Later I tried saa_ali`s method to polish the inner tube. But could`nt do it right (may be I hurrried a bit... ).

I took a long flat screw driver and dipped its tip in a small container of molten plastic (from hot glue gun), allowed it for few minutes to dry. My Idea was to avoid any scrathes inside the tube.

Then I took very fine stell wool and wound around screw driver and almost filled (snug fitted) it in power tube to the lenght of 5 inches from breach end, turned the screw driver about 50 rotations. For Each rotation the tighness became increasingly high which ensurred correct contact to the inner walls.

After that I removed stell wool and cleaned it with deisel and allowed it to dry.
As I dint have any molly grease, I used a very thing layer of Multi purpose grease inside the power tube. I used a round wooden dowel to apply the same.
Greased the piston, spring and spring guide and inserted the piston and ensured the vaccume. Though, the washer was scrached and slightly out of shape, I desided to use the same washer to see the result of polishing.

After assembling, I shot a first shot from the distance of 8 mts.... pellet hit the 1 inch ply and fell down but not rebounded. I noticed that gun has spit a good amount of grease (I think I applied bit more )

After shooting 10 shots, The pellet stared to stick to the ply and after 50 shots, pellets started piercing the ply and got embedded inside . Thats the success. When it comes to accuracy... it was pretty good I could hit cosicutive 4 pellet on pellet hits.
Now I have brought a new g smith leather washer (already soaked it in 2t oil) and breach seal. next improovement will be adding these two...

Through this very small gun smithing act I learnt quite a few things. I was a rookie of the rookie before this and now I can say that I am a rookiy .

Before this I dint even know how to detach the barrel assembly from power unit Thanks to Thomas amd sniper...

I have compiled few tricks and spring compression technics which, a very very begginer who is shy to ask (I can see my self ) can use and it will be immensly useful...

thanks guys for all your help.. will up date you soon...

Regards,
Krishna

Cool.. you are going to enjoy your gun even more now Krishna!!
and trust me its the starting trouble, and once done with it, we will see a lot more things with the guns and will not be hesitant to do it as well..
you should share those tips you have, it will help everyone, everyone has his own way of doing things and there might be always an unexplored but easy way for doing it already..

Thomas

how many type of washers we can use ..? in air gun ( leather ,nylon ,.......?

depends on the right radius and available ones, leather ones are more forgiving and can be tweaked slightly.
synthetic ones are not adjustable in terms of radius, if you get the right fit one then they are the best. IHP 35 and Dianas have ready made available ones, or rather one suits the other..
Air sealing and long life with synthetic ones, leather offers close matching performance, but are more prone to wear from duration and usage..
Thomas