Indians For Guns

Recently I have come across this hollow point Ammo for .32 Pistol. Please share your thoughts on whether this ammo is suitable for IOF mark II pistol or not?


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The purpose of a hollow point bullet is to expand and create a larger wound channel, making the bullet more likely to incapacitate the target.

However, if the penetration of the bullet is not sufficient which, in self-defense situations, is usually agreed to be greater than 305 mm, the bullet is less likely to achieve its desired results, no matter what diameter of expansion is achieved.

It should be intuitive that both penetration and expansion require energy, energy that must be derived from the kinetic energy of the bullet in motion. In other words, the more the bullet expands, the less its penetration will be.

For relatively powerful rounds, like a 9 mm or 357 Magnum, there is enough power in most bullets and loads to achieve 305 mm of penetration and more, and still expand.

The 32 Auto, however, is not known for having a great deal of energy in any loading. Most 32 Auto loads exhibit around 130 ft*lbs, or 175 joules of energy. Most loadings with a full metal jacketed bullet can achieve between 305 and 380 mm of penetration.

Have you studied any data describing the performance of 60 gr hollow point fired from a 32 Auto? The Winchester ammo I've studied shows expansion of about 9.5 mm and penetration of about 220 mm. It is better than some loads, which don't expand at all and don't penetrate sufficiently, but there are some loads that do expand and penetrate more, although they don't penetrate sufficiently, either. A couple of loads do exceed 305 mm of penetration, but don't expand at all, meaning their performance is no better than full metal jacket ammunition.

As I often do use a 32 Automatic when I carry, I use Fiocchi 73 gr full metal jacket, which penetrates 380 mm in test data I've read. I've also used Sellier and Ballot and RWS, and also CorBon 60 gr hollow points until I read data indicating that the CorBon only penetrates about 210 mm. Then, I loaded with the Fiocchi, which had very good penetration performance.

One other issue to consider is feeding. When obtaining ammunition that you will use to protect your life and/or the lives of loved ones, you had better make sure it feeds reliably through the weapon you are going to carry. Just because it works in your neighbor's or your buddy's gun does not guarantee it will feed reliably through your individual gun. This means buying a box and firing it through the weapon, at a minimum, before you bet your life on it. The CorBon did feed through my pistol, as has everything else I've shot through it, AFTER I CHANGED THE MAGAZINE SPRING! Before that, it would jam after 5 or 6 rounds, no matter what I fired through it. It was not sufficient for me to assume the gun would work -- I had to KNOW it would work! By the way, some guns don't like to feed hollow point ammunition reliably. Full metal jacketed bullets generally feed more reliably, but the only way to KNOW is to try the ammunition you propose to carry in the pistol you propose to carry.

timmy wrote:The purpose of a hollow point bullet is to expand and create a larger wound channel, making the bullet more likely to incapacitate the target.

However, if the penetration of the bullet is not sufficient which, in self-defense situations, is usually agreed to be greater than 305 mm, the bullet is less likely to achieve its desired results, no matter what diameter of expansion is achieved.

It should be intuitive that both penetration and expansion require energy, energy that must be derived from the kinetic energy of the bullet in motion. In other words, the more the bullet expands, the less its penetration will be.

For relatively powerful rounds, like a 9 mm or 357 Magnum, there is enough power in most bullets and loads to achieve 305 mm of penetration and more, and still expand.

The 32 Auto, however, is not known for having a great deal of energy in any loading. Most 32 Auto loads exhibit around 130 ft*lbs, or 175 joules of energy. Most loadings with a full metal jacketed bullet can achieve between 305 and 380 mm of penetration.

Have you studied any data describing the performance of 60 gr hollow point fired from a 32 Auto? The Winchester ammo I've studied shows expansion of about 9.5 mm and penetration of about 220 mm. It is better than some loads, which don't expand at all and don't penetrate sufficiently, but there are some loads that do expand and penetrate more, although they don't penetrate sufficiently, either. A couple of loads do exceed 305 mm of penetration, but don't expand at all, meaning their performance is no better than full metal jacket ammunition.

As I often do use a 32 Automatic when I carry, I use Fiocchi 73 gr full metal jacket, which penetrates 380 mm in test data I've read. I've also used Sellier and Ballot and RWS, and also CorBon 60 gr hollow points until I read data indicating that the CorBon only penetrates about 210 mm. Then, I loaded with the Fiocchi, which had very good penetration performance.

One other issue to consider is feeding. When obtaining ammunition that you will use to protect your life and/or the lives of loved ones, you had better make sure it feeds reliably through the weapon you are going to carry. Just because it works in your neighbor's or your buddy's gun does not guarantee it will feed reliably through your individual gun. This means buying a box and firing it through the weapon, at a minimum, before you bet your life on it. The CorBon did feed through my pistol, as has everything else I've shot through it, AFTER I CHANGED THE MAGAZINE SPRING! Before that, it would jam after 5 or 6 rounds, no matter what I fired through it. It was not sufficient for me to assume the gun would work -- I had to KNOW it would work! By the way, some guns don't like to feed hollow point ammunition reliably. Full metal jacketed bullets generally feed more reliably, but the only way to KNOW is to try the ammunition you propose to carry in the pistol you propose to carry.

Thanks for the insights

I have not studied any data related to penetration and expansion. But your info seems quite accetable. The gist of your answer is that some fmj ( like fiocchi) can have better penetration and ultimately can be better option for self defense than hollow points. However, the most common answer on internet is that Hollow point do more damage than fmj. Anyways the best thing is as you said i.e. to try it myself on my own weapon. Thanks again[emoji1317]


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You may ask what data I used to make these decisions. Firstly, on the required penetration of handgun bullets, I have gone by the now widely accepted United States FBI paper "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness":

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf

For performance data of various loads, I used the following data, which is no longer on the web, but is available as an archive here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111218193 ... l32acp.htm

A quick search of the web produced a number of links, of which these seem to be helpful:

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the- ... f-defense/
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/art ... f-defense/
https://rangehot.com/32-automatic-ballistic-test/

The data collected on these last three sites somewhat agrees with me and the site I originally used, but as might be expected, different tests came up with different figures. I know what satisfies me, but I don't know what satisfies you. By posting your question here, you've started your own research into the matter. All I can do is tell you my choices and why I've made them. Now, it's up to you to decide.

FBI data says that penetration and injury to vital parts is essential for incapcitation of the person. The law enforcement agencies use 9mm handguns which is capable of creating quite a good amount of damage to incapcitate a person. Hollow points are said to be less penetrative and less likely to create a wound that would stop a person.

Good analysis and information but given the limited options available in India, I hope these imported hollow points are better option than the IOF ammo.


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prashantchandila wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:09 pm

I hope these imported hollow points are better option than the IOF ammo.

Hollow points don't feed reliably in some pistols because their nose is not round as in FMJ. The round nose in FMJ doesn't get struck when cartridges move from magazine to chamber where as hollow points get struck due to their flat shaped nose.

Check feeding before loading the hollow points in your pistol for self defence.

The problem with most pistol is
A. the feed ramp- may be designed for RN/FMJ type projectiles. And as
B. Tommy stated, magazine profile/ geometry of the feedlips plays an important role.

Buy a box, feed and eject a couple of mags by hand.
If you have feed issues with the HP profile ammo, look at
1. Smoothening out the feed ramp- strip pistol so its accessible and use 800-1000 grit paper wrapped around an appropriate sized former - a pencil normally is just right.
2.Mag spring -hopefully is sufficient. If not, you will have to get a stronger one made. If you are a bit precise and have a spring type weighing scale, an approx spring tension can be determined. Order a new one. Say about a kg heavier in tension.
3. Feed lips. DONT bend back and forth with a nose plier. They are tempered. And will need to be annealed if the geometry is to be changed. Ask around for a gunsmith or machinist who knows what to do.
GL

Vineet wrote:

prashantchandila wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:09 pm

I hope these imported hollow points are better option than the IOF ammo.

Hollow points don't feed reliably in some pistols because their nose is not round as in FMJ. The round nose in FMJ doesn't get struck when cartridges move from magazine to chamber where as hollow points get struck due to their flat shaped nose.

Check feeding before loading the hollow points in your pistol for self defence.

Thanks Vineet.

I loaded my pistol with the superx .32 hollow point and I would like to share that it did fit properly and fired smoothly even with better grouping than IOF cartridges. After firing the hollow points, I am pretty much convinced that at least it works better than IOF. So going in for a box of Fifty cartridges.


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