I have observed in new shaktimaan 12 gauge cartridge has less gun powder and power is less then the old one.In old one cartridge the gun powder has in more quantity.
I want your seniors observations on this
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:43 am
by Vikram
How did you come to that conclusion, if I may ask?
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:38 am
by javedali923
Dear sir i have check a YouTube on this topic but I can't find the video now. I want your opinion on this it is true or a mith
How did you come to that conclusion, if I may ask?
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:12 pm
by javedali923
I think all are not interested to share there knolege on this group.
And this is the link of video that shows that shaktimaan has Less amount of poweder now
I have observed in new shaktimaan 12 gauge cartridge has less gun powder and power is less then the old one.In old one cartridge the gun powder has in more quantity.
I want your seniors observations on this
The gunpowder is low but the composition is different . In recent batches you can see the texture of the gunpowder is different than the older ones. Also if you notice closely there are small stick type of powder in them, like the ones attached below.
I have observed in new shaktimaan 12 gauge cartridge has less gun powder and power is less then the old one.In old one cartridge the gun powder has in more quantity.
I want your seniors observations on this
The gunpowder is low but the composition is different . In recent batches you can see the texture of the gunpowder is different than the older ones. Also if you notice closely there are small stick type of powder in them, like the ones attached below.
very strange powder for shotgun cartridge,looks like powder for ak-74 cartridge in 5,45x39
maybe its rifle powder?
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:28 pm
by Sam Kunal
It was mixed in small quantity with the shotgun powder. I will post pics of opened cartridges when possibble
I think all are not interested to share there knolege on this group.
Or, they may not be knowing the answer to your question. Those who know, like Sam Kunal, reply when they log in and visit the forum. Patience.
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 5:37 am
by timmy
The bulk of powder, in other words, the volume the powder occupies, has only a small amount to do with the "power" of a cartridge or shell. To use an example, if you put as much Bullseye or Unique powder in a cartridge or shell as you used of something like Trail Boss, you would likely blow up the gun and perhaps some of your parts, as well.
You cannot judge the power of a load by the appearance of the powder or size of the powder charge.
You could measure the recoil compared to a different shell or cartridge. (note that I said "measure", as with an instrument. Saying, "But it feels different will not do.
You could use a chronograph and measure the speed of the pellets (but of course, you would need to have the same weight and size of shot in the shells or cartridges you were using).
Basing an observation or opinion on anything else is only conjecture.
At the very least, why don't you call up the manufacturer and ask them about the ballistic performance of the product you suspect?
I have observed in new shaktimaan 12 gauge cartridge has less gun powder and power is less then the old one.In old one cartridge the gun powder has in more quantity.
I want your seniors observations on this
The gunpowder is low but the composition is different . In recent batches you can see the texture of the gunpowder is different than the older ones. Also if you notice closely there are small stick type of powder in them, like the ones attached below.
very strange powder for shotgun cartridge,looks like powder for ak-74 cartridge in 5,45x39
maybe its rifle powder?
Yes you are right this type of powder is used for ak 47 ammo and it produces lot of smoke when fired
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:54 am
by eljefe
Powders have evolved a lot from the time nitrocellulose was discovered as a propellant
The burning rate usually determines its use.
Faster burning rate powder has been found the best for shotguns and handgun cartridges.
Slower burning rate powders are used for rifles.
There are exceptions ofcourse, a pistol/shotgun powders like ‘Blue Dot’ ,’Green Dot’ and Red Dot’ ( so named because they have red green or blue coloured flakes in them respectively, as an aid to identifying, and possibly a brand marketing exercise ) is powder of choice for many CAST bullet rifle loads. Cast loads run Considerably slower than jacketed Bullets. .308 170 gr cast bullet @ 1800 FPS cF 2600fps for the jacketed version.
The ballistics, pressures, burn rates and other powder characteristics are beyond the scope of discussion here.
It is very unlikely that shotgun /pistol burn rate powder will be used for a jacketed service round like the 7.62x39 as conjectured in the previous post.
To give you an example, I use 23.5 grains of a fast burning powder called 4198 in a 123 gr PSP projectile in a 7.62x39 for about 2300 FPS.
This burning rate powder CANNOT be used in a shotgun. Period.
However , using a 155gr cast bullet in the same caliber, 11.5 gr of a shotgun/pistol powder called ‘ Blue Dot’ is the powder of choice. However, 23.5 gr of Blue Dot ( If I decide to use the same weight as the previously mentioned 4198 powder for jacketed projectiles ) a flake/ bulky powder Will
a. not fit in the in the tiny 7.62x39 AK case
b. If I somehow cram the case with even a lesser amount of BD and seat a projectile, it will will blow up my gun and face.
Regarding the smoke from a propellant, one of the major advantages of modern powders as compared to BP is - they are SMOKELESS. A very major selling point For the inventors to sell their product to all the major powers at the turn of the 20th century during a major expansionist era, where all the expansion was done to ‘ acquire’more countries by military means, and firepower played a major role.
BP is corrosive, gives of loads of smoke( easy to identify the position of the troops) and has a few other down points, which gave the new smokeless powder an edge.
Most service / factory loaded ammo is loaded with a proprietary ‘BLEND’ of powders.
Many Reloader - usually the new, inexperienced ones who find a good performing factory load have these pictures popping up of pulled loads, asking for a powder ID.
Unless it’s an ‘intentionally made for identification’ powder like the DOT as mentioned above, it is impossible to ID powder by direct inspection and visualisation. Forget about a pic on the inter web.
E.g some brands of powders are graphite coated in ONE country, while they may not be coated in another. Adds to the confusion.
So it’s safest - not to try reloading with unknown brands of powder
The IOFB chaps probably put their powder composition under OSA-2 act and will not give you its burn rates or international equivalents.
DONT even try to make educated guesses, leave alone ‘top of your hat’ ones when it comes to powder.
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:34 am
by timmy
Besides the AMOUNT of powder and the APPEARANCE of powder not being a reliable guide to a shell's or cartridge's power, the FEEL of shooting a cartridge or shell is not a reliable indicator of how much power it has, either.
Powders come in different burning rates. For instance, a short-barreled gun usually would use a fast burning powder so that all of the powder is burned before the wad or bullet leaves the barrel.
On the other hand, a slow burning powder can be used in long barreled guns so that the full length of the barrel contains the burning powder, giving more "push" to the projectile(s).
This is illustrated by the .22 Long Rifle cartridge. Most loadings of 22s will be maximized around a 16" barrel. This means that in a handgun, some powder is still burning when the bullet leaves the barrel. When the same 22 cartridge is used in a long barreled rifle, the powder stops burning while the bullet is in the barrel and may even be delivered to the target slower than one shot from a 16" rifle. One of my 22s has a 24 inch barrel, and this can be sensed by shooting it: it is very quiet.
A fast burning powder must develop it's pressure quickly, and tends to have a bit more "kick" than a slow burning powder, which spreads it's burning over a longer time in a longer barrel.
Thus, what might be felt as "kick" may not mean more power for the projectile(s), and a lighter kick may not mean less power.
As I said before, a chronograph is a reliable way to check on the power of a shell or cartridge. Feel and sight and amount are not.
Even penetration can be a tricky thing to use, when comparing raw power delivered by a projectile.
Consider the many brands of 32 Auto cartridges that are made. One might think that the most penetration of gel or whatever indicates the most powerful cartridge. But, this is not true: sometimes slower 32 Auto bullets penetrate more than faster bullets of the same weight. This is because very subtile differences in the shape of the bullet allow some to penetrate better than others.
With shotguns, you may be able to get a better idea of power if you are shooting shells being compared from the same gun and using the same size of shot. In this case, you might want to use at least a caliper, or better yet, a micrometer, to measure the shot and be sure of the sizes of shot in the shells you are comparing.
Re: Shaktimaan new vs old cartridge power
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:54 am
by eljefe
I can heartily attest to a fast burning powder recoil.
53 gr of 4227 under a 350 gr 0.458 Hornady, in a wildcat called 458 JCE, a copy of the Africa famous B&M magnums, left me with a bloody nose! Had to stuff toilet paper in the R nostril and continue. Vicious at both ends. In a 7 lb Browning A bolt action. I sold that gun ASAP.
And a Cast 145 gr lead bullet at 1800 FPS went 17” into a tree trunk, compared to a 150 gr Nosler which managed 11”. Big flat meplats have this penetration which beggars belief
I think all are not interested to share there knolege on this group.
And this is the link of video that shows that shaktimaan has Less amount of poweder now
That’s a 32 gram load with approx 24 gr of powder. Absolutely fine. More in the line of a ‘Unique’ Load for 1 1/8 Oz.
There’s something called a ‘blown pattern’ which happens at hot loads. The pattern , instead of being uniform - eg 40” diameter at 40 yds has a gap in the centre like a doughnut.
I’m confident that the manufacturer has pattern tested his product to acceptable patterns before releasing it into the market.