Indians For Guns

As per a notification [GSR 375(E) of June 21,1980] multiple projectile cartridges with a projectile of 5mm or more were declared to be prohibited.So a person can own a shotgun cartridge with pellets of less than 5mm(4.99 mm or less).BB is the largest that is available in India.What does BB correspond to in terms of pellet size?

penpusher

Sukpreet,

See http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/shotgun-table-shots.php for more on shot sizes... and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=682

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Thanks Abhijeet.I have found this link http://www.chuckhawks.com/shot_info.htm.


According to this,the largest size shot that Indians can legally have in a shotgun cartridge is US BBB(4.83mm in dia).That should be substantially better than the BB(4.06mm) shot that we get here.

penpusher

penpusher,

Personally I feel that the shot size limitation rule is stupid in the extreme!

However, since that is not likely to change any time soon, resourceful private ammo companies have come out with an alternative - recall seeing a (Shaktiman?) cartridge which had a single projectile that breaks into 4 upon firing. This was however a 70mm case (as are their slugs), and since my gun is chambered for 65mm, have never had the chance to try it out...

Maybe other members have used this ammo and would be able to give a more detailed report on it's performance.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

A BB size pellet is usually 4.2 mm. The Airgun round pellet of .175 dia, is often called Airrifle size among US cartridge makers. This translates to BBBB by british standards.

Here's an extract from my ELEY shooter's diary for this year, which I had brought back from the Bruton Street London showroom of Holland & Holland.

LG 9.1 mm
SG 8.4 mm
Special SG 7.6 mm
SSG 6.8 mm
AAA 5.2 mm
BB 4.1 mm
No. 1 - 3.6 mm
No. 3 - 3.3 mm
No. 4 - 3.1 mm
No. 6 - 2.6 mm
No. 7 1/2 - 2.3 mm
No. 9 - 2.0 mm

I had fired a Shaktiman slug from a French Gun - Robust last year. Gun was chambered for 70 mm.

First attempt misfired. Loaded it again in the left barell. Fired at an empty plastic bottle at 30 yards. Second attempt it fired. Excellent trajectory, no drop at 30 yards. Penetrated the bottle and landed in the river 50 yards away. Hit the water and changed trajectory at a rising 30 degree angle left, went had hit the opposite river bank 100 yards away about 10 ft higher ground from firing position.

Next tried this disintegrating lethal slug. First attempt misfire. Second attempt missed. Tossed it into the water.

Conclusion - If it fires it fires well, but cannot be trusted.

Abhijeet, a friend sent me some info on a 0.5" x 0.5" inch steel cylinder-cut into 4 pies and loaded onto a 12 case with a nylon sabot-claims to go thru hardened ares/automobiles (interpret that anyways!) multiple shearing/cutting points if you imagine a cross section!
Best
Axx

Shahid,

The ammo might have been old or maybe the material that is used in making the caps of Shaktiman cartridges is overly hard.Sometimes this thing happens with old KF ammo also.

penpusher

eljefe";p="10719 wrote: Abhijeet, a friend sent me some info on a 0.5" x 0.5" inch steel cylinder-cut into 4 pies and loaded onto a 12 case with a nylon sabot-claims to go thru hardened ares/automobiles (interpret that anyways!) multiple shearing/cutting points if you imagine a cross section!
Best
Axx

Asif, Sounds real interesting... is this a home brew?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

A long time ago read about a fellow who used to cut a cross,a couple of mm's deep in his soft nosed revolver bullets to facilitate expansion.The bullets would break up into parts along these cuts on encountering something solid.

Asif,

Whats a 'hardened ares'

penpusher

PS-The notification talks of multiple projectiles.Does not say that it only applies to pellets.

Abhijeet, Yes, simply pull out existing shot load and replace with this brass or Steel solid enclosed in a nylon sabot.
Ccan even top up with two such projectiles and still stay within crimp area of the 65mm! A clean cut , 4 pie cylinder will have atleast 9 cutting edges per pie? translates into major tissue damage
Got this info during my quest for home defense loads for shot gun
penpusher
A little superglue to make it a single projectile? If multiple projectiles are a no go, what about Frangible projectiles? Shaktiman seems to be making a legal version as per above post.
Cutting a cross etc is a frangible projectible
I know you came close , but it was a typo- meant to be 'areA', not 'a**e !! :)
The beastie 's resurrection has been put off until summer, all you can see of it is pre Mack The Knife looks.Hanging fire waiting for a renewal and a transfer of firearm.should be ready anytime, as per my bro...wish me luck.
Axx
Best
Axx

Asif,

As long as the shot is in one piece when in the cartridge,it's legal.

Firing a steel shot,even when encased in a nylon sabot,would not be a vey good idea. Most of the guns in India are prooved for lead shot.The sharp edges of the cut steel rod might just tear gashes in the barrel,in case the pieces are not fully encased in the sabot while travelling down it.Pure lead slug would be a better idea.

penpusher

In India there is a quick an easy solution. Open a Shaktiman cartridge. Take out the slug. Load it in an Astram by removing the sots and the shot cup from the cup / power piston assembly. Put the power piston back and the slug on top of it. Close back the crimp.

The results are fantastic.

If Astram is not available then some of our Desi shooters use a 5 by 3 formula.

5 KF special cartridges are opened. The powder collected is divide into 3 lots and reloaded in 3 KF Special cases.

SLug removed from Shaktiman is inserted in the cartridge which is closed with a crimpring press or even by hand, very finely. Results equally good but the recoil is a bit heavy. OK in winter clothing although.

I have used Shaktiman express solids and they are damn good.Not a single misfire across a range of dates.For home defence,if you have a double barrel,definitely load one with a ball.Devastating to say the least.

Best-
Vikram

Saw this chart on the bottom of a cartridge box and vaguely recalled this thread, so took a pic.




Mack The Knife

It is always suspectible. When it fires it does hold true over a distance of 50 yards, a 2 inch drop at 75 yards. Upto that distance it is quite an effective slug.

The best slug ever used so far is the BRI Sabot. What a slug. Accurate to 100 yards and excellent expansion and weight retention.