Are both .380 ACP & .38 Spl NP Bore in India?

[sourabhsangale]

Yes i agree with you completely. But whatever ever caliber getting license is not at all easy . Once NPB license is granted you can take any caliber you want apart from 9mm para and luger , others as well which are prohibited.

[riflemarksman]

9mm is not an easy caliber to shoot with most of use would miss the target because of the weigjt and recoil of the pistol whereas .32 or even .38 is manageble

[Vikram]

Restricted Calibres.jpg

Guys, please go through the original text before saying that a particular calibre is restricted. The document is available on this forum. Please refer to the photo attached here.

[Vikram]

9mm is not an easy caliber to shoot with most of use would miss the target because of the weigjt and recoil of the pistol whereas .32 or even .38 is manageble

The 9mm is not really a heavy recoiling cartridge.

[timmy]

9mm is not an easy caliber to shoot with most of use would miss the target because of the weigjt and recoil of the pistol whereas .32 or even .38 is manageble

I find that hot 38 Special loads in my Colt Detective Special (a snubbie) will have snappy recoil, compared to my Norinco 213 (a Chinese star pistol in 9mm). Neither are like 357 or, expecially, 44 Mag or hot loads in my 45 Colt. All of this is subjective. Considering the power of the 32 Auto cartridge, the blowback action most pistols use makes the recoil seem greater than if the cartridge was chambered in a locked breech action (which wouldn't make much sense from a cost perspective).

Most any of the cartridges we've discussed can be mastered by most people with a reasonable amount of practice. Given the scant ammunition allowance, this is not always an option. My opinion would be that everyone should be using their ammunition allotment completely, every year, to maintain as much familiarity with one's weapon as possible, and also to have an idea where it shoots with respect to the sight picture.

[riflemarksman]

9mm is not an easy caliber to shoot with most of use would miss the target because of the weigjt and recoil of the pistol whereas .32 or even .38 is manageble

The 9mm is not really a heavy recoiling cartridge.

You would have to practice a lot with 9mm specially if your shooting with one hand...... but with a .32 even a person who hss never fired a pistol can still manage to hit the target...... 32 recoil and pistol weight is way less

[timmy]

9mm is not an easy caliber to shoot with most of use would miss the target because of the weigjt and recoil of the pistol whereas .32 or even .38 is manageble

The 9mm is not really a heavy recoiling cartridge.

You would have to practice a lot with 9mm specially if your shooting with one hand...... but with a .32 even a person who hss never fired a pistol can still manage to hit the target...... 32 recoil and pistol weight is way less

If this is your opinion, so be it, but my view and experience does not agree with this. Practice is key to mastering a handgun, and hitting targets is never as easy as the uninitiated think. Doing so when a split-second decision is called for and one's life is threatened is a whole 'nother matter.

[riflemarksman]

Yes, this is my view and experience ..........we are talking about common people using guns not national or internation shooters......

[Timnorris]

The 9mm is not really a heavy recoiling cartridge.

You would have to practice a lot with 9mm specially if your shooting with one hand...... but with a .32 even a person who hss never fired a pistol can still manage to hit the target...... 32 recoil and pistol weight is way less

If this is your opinion, so be it, but my view and experience does not agree with this. Practice is key to mastering a handgun, and hitting targets is never as easy as the uninitiated think. Doing so when a split-second decision is called for and one's life is threatened is a whole 'nother matter.

Well timmy you just mention that you have experience so have you fired with a 9mm Pistol since its PB where did you get the weapon from ?

[Vikram]

Well timmy you just mention that you have experience so have you fired with a 9mm Pistol since its PB where did you get the weapon from ?

He lives in the US and has a lot of experience.

I have some experience with the 9mm too. It is not difficult to handle.

As Tim was saying above, shooting with a handgun accurately needs practice. It is a perishable skill.

[timmy]

@Timnorris

Well timmy you just mention that you have experience so have you fired with a 9mm Pistol

Yes.

I own a number of handguns, including a 9mm and a 32 Auto. I have several 38 Special revolvers, including the Detective Special I mentioned. I reload for all three cartridges, along with others.

@riflemarksman

we are talking about common people using guns not national or internation shooters

I don't compete formally (I have once, but not with handguns), and am no expert, though at the range or out plinking, i have turned in respectable performances with young folks possessing good eyes.

@riflemarksman

specially if your shooting with one hand

I have shot a little combat-type shooting, but I am generally a "bullseye" shooter and shoot handguns in the traditional one-handed stance.

I will admit, I have "Vikram-sized" hands. However, my Wife has shot my 38 Special revolvers and many years ago, all of my kids (two boys, two girls) shot 22s for fun. Now that they all have their own families, the boys still shoot a number of guns, as do their families (boys and girls). So, shooting with small hands isn't something I've done myself, but I have close experience with those who do shoot with small hands.

@Timnorris

where did you get the weapon from ?

As Vikram says, I'm not located in India. Many gun issues in the USA are not pertinent to the Indian situation, but some are. Recoil of guns (along with many other aspects of design) are the same everywhere, so I believe my views, learning, and opinion on such topics are relevant to our discussions here.

Looking through magazines and books, I noted that the TT33 Tokarev, or "Star" pistol was compact, both in size and in thinness, so one day, when the opportunity arose in a local gun store, I bought a used Norinco 213 (a TT33 made in China to shoot 9mm). If you have noted my previous comments on the suitability of this pistol for self defense and concealed carry, they are largely (but not completely) based on having this pistol.

I also have a Czech CZ52, which shoots the original 7.62x25 cartridge, so I can comment on that, and also compare it to the TT design.

Additionally, I have a Czech CZ70 in 32 Auto, which is my carry gun. (Things have deteriorated here, as well, so I serve as a security guard in our church.) I have done a lot of thinking about the 32 Auto as a self defense round, and have posted some of my views on that subject here. (The CZ70 is shaped like a Walther PP, but it's not a copy. I will just say for the moment that I like the design of Czech guns.)

Speaking of the Indian gun situation, you may have noted my comments on a useful and modern revolver that I felt would be suitable and desirable. That was a solid frame weapon with modern lockwork, chambered in 327 Federal Magnum. The availability of 32 S&W Long would make such a revolver relevant in India, and the option of shooting 32 H&R Magnum and 327 Federal Magnum would be useful, if one could get hold of that ammunition. These last two cartridges would be useful for self defense, especially the 327. I have had thoughts of getting one myself, although in retirement, the demands on my available finances favor taking care of my existing guns, as do the demands of my Wife.

Based on what I've shared with you about myself, I think I can constructively contribute to a discussion involving the TT, 7.62x25, 32 Auto, and 9mm.

[riflemarksman]

I said 9mm needs lot of practice .....I never said its an impossible thing to do...........and also we are talking about the Indian scenario where ammuntion cost are high and there is a limited number of cartridges you can buy for a particular time period ......so practice is also limited............. .I still stand by what I have said that .32 acp or even a .38 revolver is much easier cartridge or gun to handle than a 9mm ..........whatever your level of skill is or where ever you live in the world...........people in USA use heavy caliber pistols because they have stopping power and they are available with wide varity of models and grips and also different loads are available...... but here IOF makes only a single model ........if a gun with a smaller frame and lesser recoil energy do the same job then I would always go with the smaller one .......I was comparing .32 to 9mm in terms if ease of handling for a person who has never held a pistol in his hand which is the case for most Indians since getting a handgun is still a big deal here

[timmy]

and also we are talking about the Indian scenario where ammuntion cost are high and there is a limited number of cartridges you can buy for a particular time period

I would add to this the fact that 9mm is PB in the Indian scenario, and that any comparison with other cartridges must remain academic in this scenario. So:

comparing .32 to 9mm in terms if ease of handling for a person who has never held a pistol in his hand which is the case for most Indians since getting a handgun is still a big deal here

isn't likely to happen soon.

[riflemarksman]

I would't have discussed it since you bought the American scenario......so I gave you the Indian scenario

[eljefe]

Lively topic.

I first used a 9mm and .38 spl. on the same day at a police range when I was 16.we shared our state association range with them. Classical, single hand duelling pistol style is how we were instructed. The first 1-2 Shots were a bit exhilarating but 3 of us juniors shooting got all 10 on the fig. 12 target. So we requested and got a couple more mags each. Then moved onto the .38 spl- I distinctly remember using a Ruger.
The .22 target hand guns we used afterwards paled in comparison. The memories of those PB handgun are still so vivid.

A 1200 gram Korth revolver in 9mm With staged trigger and silky action - felt recoil is so minimal, 2nd round is off before you know it. A Norinco 1911 clone in 9mm can leave a bad memory.

A friend who is 65kg and 5’8” loves a .500 NE and uses it monthly to drop wild buffalo in NT.

Anyone who uses a 9mm or a .45 will tell you recoil is a very personal and subjective phenomenon.
When a person is inducted correctly, is taught to anticipate the noise and any recoil associated flinch, they take to it very fast- regardless of caliber or stature. Even 10 rounds every 3 months.
Can make a great difference to mindset and muscle memory.

Coming to a Self defence scenario- there is no commonality in human behaviour from an INDIAN civilian perspective. None of us train like the NSG to take headshots with any issue firearm, in any position.

It’s going to be a very big fluke for a first time user to pick up a .32 or a .22 Or a 9mm and get a shot in the kill zone of a human-unless it’s a pretty point blank range. Adrenaline May make one squeeze a trigger at a human, but the same adrenaline will also deaden the recoil and the blast and the stress situation may even lead to a tunnel vision and time dilation effects.

My opinion is,it’s not the caliber or stature but the conditioning which makes a 21 year old Haryanvi Jawan an ace sniper with a .338 LM or .50 BMG.

Even given the limited ammo quotas In India, wouldn’t it be possible to use club ammo/ handguns to get in some practice and the required muscle memory ?