9mm NATO vs. 9mm Luger

[mundaire]

The following is an interesting comparison between the different specs for 9mm NATO and the normal civilian 9mm Parabellum/ Luger.

The ammo industry uses something called SAAMI Standards to establish the pressures that ammo should be loaded to. The SAAMI pressure for 9mm Luger ammo is around 35,000 PSI, and C.I.P (think European SAAMI) rates 9mm Luger ammo at 34,080 PSI. According to documentation, the 9mm NATO rounds are pressured at 36,500 PSI (again according to CIP). That means that when compared to standard 9mm ammo, the 9mm NATO ammo is running a higher pressure, analogous to a 9mm +P load, which SAAMI rates around 36,000 PSI.

The complete article is at http://gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9mm-nato-vs-9mm-luger/

It seems one learns something new every day

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[nagarifle]

and theres me thinking 9mm is 9mm nato or luger all the same one.

get hit by one.

it shows you how different they are. not much to talk about if get hit with one," eh doc is a nato 9mm or luger that hit me, you know the pressure is different" and the injury may be different.

i don't know, Abhji, where you dig up this bits to tickle our gray matter.

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[penpusher]

From what I understand,there is a difference between 9mm ammo for sub-machineguns and for pistols.The former is loaded to a higher pressure and may also have have harder primer caps than the latter.This is the first time that I am hearing of a 9mm NATO.

[cottage cheese]

and theres me thinking 9mm is 9mm nato or luger all the same one.

get hit by one.

it shows you how different they are. not much to talk about if get hit with one," eh doc is a nato 9mm or luger that hit me, you know the pressure is different" and the injury may be different.

i don't know, Abhji, where you dig up this bits to tickle our gray matter.

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Me too...

[msandhu]

From what i know 9mm +P is used mostly by LE and Armed forces. Dimensionally they are same. +P are loaded at higher pressure so they have little more recoil and might wear down the pistols more quickly.
I didn't know that that +P are also called NATO. As others i also thought NATO and Lugger are same.
Cheers
Mandeep

[timmy]

It is reasonable to assume that +P loads are going to create higher pressures than do standard loads, but I admit that I am leery of pressure data provided from a number of different sources. Part of the problem here in my mind arose from my looking into loads for my RFI 2A in 7.62x51. A number of people claimed that the sporting 308 Winchester commercial loads should not be used in RFI 2As because the commercial loads created higher pressures than the military loads. The pressure levels often quoted to support this claim were indeed different, but nobody ever said how the pressures were measured.

In fact, due to the different ways chamber pressures are measured, the actual pressure data for military 7.62x51 and commercial 308 loads does not vary by a significant amount.

This article describes the situation pretty well:

Chamber Pressure Measurement

Regarding this fellow's article about 9mm Parabellum, I would like to see a little more information regarding where he's getting his pressure measurements from. As the article I linked mentions, I've often seen "PSI" used where "CUP" would have been more appropriate many times.

[BJL]

That was a pretty informative read, thanks Timmy.

[MoA]

For all practical purposes... there is no difference between 9mm and 9mm +P.
Most 'modern' 9mm pistols wont be able to tell the difference.
In the older 9mm guns.. the pressure 'might' be an issue.
In my Cz-75 the difference between a 9mm Luger and a +p load is 4.1 grains of N 320 versus 4.6 grains of powder under a 124 grain FMJ. Moreover the velocity difference is only about 150 fps.

With some of the other handgun calibers.. the differences are more marked.

[simar]

while i agree that 9mm nato is okay to fire in most newer handguns, its still subgun ammo and will batter your slide more so than regular 9mm... So if you have rail wear, you might want to avoid it.

[MoA]

Simar in most cases rail wear is a non-issue. Replacement parts are easy to get.