Rimlocking catridges

[dr.jayakumar]

hi friends,
here in india most of us have .32 bore pistols.i had feeding problems now and then with my beretta. while looking for an answer i found that .32 calibre is more prone to rimlocking.http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... Ww&cad=rja
it is so sad that the only easier catridge we can use has this problem and it seems universe.
did anyone experiance the same with your .32 pistol?anyone has better solution for this?
regards

[SUFFIX]

Looks like a design problem.

[timmy]

Dr. Jayakumar:

Suggest you have a look at this, which (for me) is quite convincing:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Quoting from the conclusion of this document:

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.

There have been a number of performance tests run on .32 ACP ammunition. The result of these tests appears unanimous to me, and that is that only FMJ bullets can come close to achieving the 12" minimum penetration requirement, and that the fancy expanding bullets fall far short of this. Using FMJ, by the way, eliminates this problem mentioned in the article you provided a link for:

But if you throw in a shorter over all cartridge (ie hollow points) then they are able to move more forward and back in the mag which could allow the bottom of the top rim to get behind the top of the bottom rim like this (The top round would be rim locked if this were to occur in the mag):

So the happy conclusion I've come to for my own personal .32 ACP carry is to use the commonly available (an much cheaper) FMJ, rather than the fancy Cor-Bon expanding hollow points. I do have other carry options, but when I travel, carrying my DA CZ 50 semiauto gives me a very compact package that conceals easily and also will slip into a pocket of my camera case. The .32 ACP has been around forever and is, perhaps, the most chambered round for handguns ever (aside, perhaps, from the .22 rimfire variants). While it certainly isn't optimal from an effectiveness standpoint, it is much more concealable than many alternatives.

Anyway, I find that this solves the "rimlock" problem you mention. I will say, however, that with all of the ammunition I've tried in my CZ 50, I have NEVER encountered this problem. Naturally, as one would expect for a carry gun, I have tested ALL of the different types of ammunition I use for carry purposes at the range, and have satisfied myself that it is going to work.

Do you know, the British, leading up to World War 1, built many dreadnought battleships. However, as a cost cutting measure, they only made a superficial, cursory test of the shells used for these guns. Had British shells been effective, they would have sunk many more corresponding German ships in the Battle of Jutland. Reading this record, one cannot fail to be impressed by the way the British sacrificed so much as a nation to build and man a fleet of battleships to protect their nation, but scrimped on the projectile those battleships were meant to deliver!

Do not make this same mistake! You MUST know that the ammunition you use in a carry gun is going to WORK when the chips are down, and the only way to do this is to shoot the ammunition in the gun you are going to carry. What is the point of going through so much trouble and expense of obtaining and carrying a gun, and then scrimping on the very point of carrying the gun in the first place: as a tool to deliver a bullet if necessary?

This is the same conclusion that the author of your linked article has come to:

My personal opinion is to carry FMJ in my p-32. This is because of the better penetration of the FMJ and it being more likely to get to something vital. That and looking at how many of the HP's that did not expand, or only expanded a little (look here) was not worth the trade off in penetration and reliability of FMJ's to me. That you must decide for yourself.

If you follow his link where he says "(look here)", you will go to the Golden Loki site where a lot of the .32 ACP ammunition tests I've mentioned have been conducted.

For me, this over 100 year old cartridge's issues were solved many years ago, and over and over since then. Now, it seems, we are relearning the same lesson one more time: The genius of John M Browning (the developer of the .32 ACP cartridge) still stands as a practical, reliable, and useful contribution to our choice of available firearms.

[dr.jayakumar]

for me, this over 100 year old cartridge's issues were solved many years ago, and over and over since then. Now, it seems, we are relearning the same lesson one more time: The genius of John M Browning (the developer of the .32 ACP cartridge) still stands as a practical, reliable, and useful contribution to our choice of available firearms.
Regards,
tim

User avatar
timmy

thank you so much on the insight you provided.
the last line of yours give's me a hope and assurance that .32Acp's can be an effective calibre.
regards timmy and happy festive season.

[xl_target]

Rimlocking is possible with any rimmed cartridge. If you are aware of the issue and load the magazine carefully, it shouldn't be a problem.

Here is what the Keltec P32 owners manual says about loading the magazine. Loading your Beretta magazine in this way will prevent rim lock:

To load, fill the magazine by pressing a cartridge downward on the forward portion of
the magazine follower (or downward on the case of the previously loaded cartridge)
and sliding the cartridge fully under the lips of the magazine until the cartridge is all
the way back in the magazine.
Repeat the steps above for the number of cartridges you wish to load, up to the
magazine capacity. Do not attempt to load your magazine with more than the specified
number of rounds because doing so can cause a feeding malfunction.
As the .32 ACP is semi-rimmed, take special care not to push the rim behind the
previous round or tilt down the front of the cartridge. A firm tap on the back of the
magazine to align the rounds is a good habit with any magazine.

The Mosin Nagant rifle uses a rimmed cartridge and they have been around since 1891.
You know even the famed Lee-Enfield rifle was prone to rim lock if not loaded properly. Yet the Commonwealth armies used it successfully in two world wars. The Enfield used stripper clips that were loaded a certain way. Once a magazine was charged with the stripper clips, the issue never reared its head. I still remember my old NCC instructor constantly repeating "2-up 3-down" when talking about loading stripper clips. The rim placement for Enfield clips should look like this: _-_-_

What I am saying is that just because you use a rimmed cartridge, it is not a guarantee that it will rimlock.

[timmy]

The Mosin Nagant rifle uses a rimmed cartridge and they have been around since 1891.

True enough, XL! And the design for the magazine interruptor on the Mosin Nagant rifle is simple, effective, and elegant. It is so effective that it prevents double loading without a positive feed from the magazine. The interruptor is timed so that a cartridge will not be raised to the feeding position in the magazine until the bolt is turned down sufficiently to allow the extractor hook to snap over the chambered cartridge rim.

It looks to simple to work, but it works very effectively!