Indians For Guns

Desperately Seeking Shivaji’s Sword

TNN | Jul 2, 2002, 09.37 PM IST

Hi All,
I came across this very interesting report... I'm sharing this with the hope that our more knowledgeable Blade Aficianados could throw some light on this.

WHILE a lot is known about Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, what continues to remain a mystery is the existence of his original swords. Which is why, time and again, the issue returns to haunt those who to try to trace the missing blades.

This time around, it was the information received by home minister L.K. Advani which put the swords back into news. During his five-day tour of Spain last month, Spanish researchers revealed that one of Shivaji's swords, called Bhawani, was made by craftsmen in Toledo, an industrial township which has excelled in the production of weaponry.

"Yes, it can be true because there has been documentary evidence to show that swords had been imported from Spain because of the quality of steel and the mastery of its workers in designing swords and knives," confirms historian Babasaheb Purandare. According to Purandare, Shivaji possessed three swords which were named Bhawani, Jagdamba and Tulja.

Bhawani, it is believed, is now in the custody of Udayraje Bhosale of Satara who is a direct descendent of Shivaji. "But," says historian Ninad Bedekar, "the sword has been inscribed with the name of Shahu Chhatrapati. As such, this leaves room for doubt about whether this is the same sword as used by the Maratha king." There is, however, no controversy about the originality of Jagdamba which was gifted to Edward VII, the Prince of Wales, during his visit to India. It is now a part of the Indian treasure that adorns Buckingham Palace in London.

As for Tulja, the scent for that trail was lost a long time back. "Essentially," elaborates Bedekar, "there is no written description of the swords available anywhere. That makes it difficult to establish the authenticity of the claims made from time to time.

The only written narrative available is that of the sheath which was penned by a Dutchman called Herbet Jagger." It is this unknown factor which has also prompted a few antique collectors to try and make a fast buck by announcing the find of the original sword(s). "The most famous case on record is that of an antique dealer called Modi who, back in 1930, had come across a sword with an inscription that he claimed proved its ownership. He wanted a price of Rs 10,000 (a hefty amount in those days) and there was quite a hue and cry about this case. Eventually, the buyer of that sword and the answer to whether it was really genuine never came to light," recalls Purandare.

Meanwhile, the Toledo angle has excited historians all over again. And Babasaheb Purandare feels that the government should ask the Spanish authorities to provide a detailed account of the manufacturer's markings on Bhawani, so that these can be compared with the sword in the custody of Udayraje Bhosale. "It is very important to get the record straight," says Purandare.
Those who swear by Shivaji will no doubt agree that the effort would be worth it.

Briha

brihacharan wrote:Desperately Seeking Shivaji’s Sword

TNN | Jul 2, 2002, 09.37 PM IST

Hi All,
I came across this very interesting report... I'm sharing this with the hope that our more knowledgeable Blade Aficianados could throw some light on this.

WHILE a lot is known about Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, what continues to remain a mystery is the existence of his original swords. Which is why, time and again, the issue returns to haunt those who to try to trace the missing blades.

This time around, it was the information received by home minister L.K. Advani which put the swords back into news. During his five-day tour of Spain last month, Spanish researchers revealed that one of Shivaji's swords, called Bhawani, was made by craftsmen in Toledo, an industrial township which has excelled in the production of weaponry.

"Yes, it can be true because there has been documentary evidence to show that swords had been imported from Spain because of the quality of steel and the mastery of its workers in designing swords and knives," confirms historian Babasaheb Purandare. According to Purandare, Shivaji possessed three swords which were named Bhawani, Jagdamba and Tulja.

Bhawani, it is believed, is now in the custody of Udayraje Bhosale of Satara who is a direct descendent of Shivaji. "But," says historian Ninad Bedekar, "the sword has been inscribed with the name of Shahu Chhatrapati. As such, this leaves room for doubt about whether this is the same sword as used by the Maratha king." There is, however, no controversy about the originality of Jagdamba which was gifted to Edward VII, the Prince of Wales, during his visit to India. It is now a part of the Indian treasure that adorns Buckingham Palace in London.

As for Tulja, the scent for that trail was lost a long time back. "Essentially," elaborates Bedekar, "there is no written description of the swords available anywhere. That makes it difficult to establish the authenticity of the claims made from time to time.

The only written narrative available is that of the sheath which was penned by a Dutchman called Herbet Jagger." It is this unknown factor which has also prompted a few antique collectors to try and make a fast buck by announcing the find of the original sword(s). "The most famous case on record is that of an antique dealer called Modi who, back in 1930, had come across a sword with an inscription that he claimed proved its ownership. He wanted a price of Rs 10,000 (a hefty amount in those days) and there was quite a hue and cry about this case. Eventually, the buyer of that sword and the answer to whether it was really genuine never came to light," recalls Purandare.

Meanwhile, the Toledo angle has excited historians all over again. And Babasaheb Purandare feels that the government should ask the Spanish authorities to provide a detailed account of the manufacturer's markings on Bhawani, so that these can be compared with the sword in the custody of Udayraje Bhosale. "It is very important to get the record straight," says Purandare.
Those who swear by Shivaji will no doubt agree that the effort would be worth it.

Briha

Sir as per Egerton pg. 27 of Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour " One of Shivajis swords preserved by the Bhonsla family at Kolhapur was presented to the Prince Of Wales. Dr. Birdwood, Handwood p.59. THE Firangi in the POW in Mumbai may very well be the third sword...........

Regards
Moin.

Matching a particular sword to a particular person is difficult.

Kings & Warriors of the day had several weapons commissioned all the time. Weapons were made right before battle and several times, swords were broken and replaced. So each of them could be attributed to a multitude of weapons, they would have used at some point in time.

Battle weapons were generally bereft of adornment, but were still named after the warrior, I know some one who has a sword with the name of "Rana Sanga" however to actually verify this is extremely difficult.

Im personally aware of another family in India, who claims to be in possession of the Bhawani Talwar.

Its an open debate....Akbar as per the Ain-i-Akbari had 30+ Swords made by Kalb Ali, and a different sword was sent up every day to his room from the armory, and each were given names. Even if all 30 swords were present in front of us, it would still be difficult to come to equate them with Akbar, despite of what is written on the Cartouche.

In the absence of any solid proof, it is difficult to nail down a sword to a Historical figure IMHO.

It was common to have european swords (blades) brought into india and have them made into "indian". This was more after 1700s and 1800s.
I agree with the above view re: the difficulty of proving the authenticity re: swords.
Many swords were made for kings; swords were given away frequently as gifts.
Even in the middle ages there were many 'copy cats' who made swords resembling those made by the famous makers. Also throughout history there have been instances of fake "antiques".

I have seen dozen "authentic" swords belonging to guru Govind singh ji.
RE: Advani ji, he seems to meet all the researchers re: Indian money and treasure abroad. Whether its black money in swiss bank or Shivaji's sword.

"Firangi" was actually used for french but encompassed all things European.

Thanks for the blog link.
Good details there albeit in a bit too glorifying manner. There have been many threads about the khanda and the three parts of india it is mostly related to and the symbolic strength of the same.

Sosun patta is of greater interest as it is more pure maharashtrian in origin.

shooter wrote:It was common to have european swords (blades) brought into india and have them made into "indian". This was more after 1700s and 1800s.
I agree with the above view re: the difficulty of proving the authenticity re: swords.
Many swords were made for kings; swords were given away frequently as gifts.
Even in the middle ages there were many 'copy cats' who made swords resembling those made by the famous makers. Also throughout history there have been instances of fake "antiques".

I have seen dozen "authentic" swords belonging to guru Govind singh ji.
RE: Advani ji, he seems to meet all the researchers re: Indian money and treasure abroad. Whether its black money in swiss bank or Shivaji's sword.

"Firangi" was actually used for french but encompassed all things European.

Thanks for the blog link.
Good details there albeit in a bit too glorifying manner. There have been many threads about the khanda and the three parts of india it is mostly related to and the symbolic strength of the same.

Sosun patta is of greater interest as it is more pure maharashtrian in origin.

Thanks Shooter.Similarly with the Sword of Tipu Sultan. There's one in HM collection in Windsor, one which Mallaya brought back for 1.5 CR. The one in Windsor was tbe one taken during the battle of Sriranagpatanam not the one brought back by Mallaya.

You are referring to the Dand Pata or the Gauntlet Sword as being Marathi in Origin.The Sosun Pata is more of an Indo Persian Blade thiugh I have seen some pics of Sosun Patas with Hindu Box Hilts hinting Rajput origin.

Dear Shooter,

The Maratha weapon is indeed the dand patta & patta (gauntlet sword) in both fixed and flexible blades

Im posting a link below from a thread started earlier "Sikh Arms and Armour" we have had a good discussions on this topic

http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic ... 1&start=30

Regards,
Pistolero

How did I miss this thread! The Englishmen very well must have forced the Kolhapur gaadi to GIFT the Jagadamba to them as this was just not any decorated or exquisite piece to give away but a symbol of the MARATHA EMPIRE.The Enthroned HH Shivaji Maharaj 4th on Kolhapur Gaadi was too young when this happened.My heart bleeds all the time over this issue .And some fellow old politicians bring up this issue and give a hope of bringing it back. The sword with dealer Modi clearly caught attention of ShivShahir Dr.Purandare due to the inscription of the HH's name on it and it wasnt much an looker but more of an workhorse. To talk of the current enthroned Udayanraje bhosale and his Bhawani,I HAVE NO FLYING CLUE and neither will I believe that sword unless someone knowledgeable would confirm it .I dont believe in this person at all being a GHATI and knowing antics he is upto all the time.