Indians For Guns

Dear IFG members,
I'm opening this post for the people who think that India somewhat lacks the passion for creating things perfectly. I browsed the site and saw many dreamers turning their dreams into reality by making something that couldn't be thought by an average indian. But I don't know why I feel that the indian people lack the passion for creating things perfectly. For example let's take things made in america and compare them to the same made in india. Why is there so much difference in perfection? I yesterday met a man or more accurately a "luhaar". I tried to get him to make a knife of my design and from my choice of material but he simply took it the other way and at the end of day the result was that it left a bitter taste in my mouth for the quality of indian products. I'd like for all IFG members to give opinions about this. If possible share an experience with me on this topic.

seedha.admi wrote:Dear IFG members,
I'm opening this post for the people who think that India somewhat lacks the passion for creating things perfectly. I browsed the site and saw many dreamers turning their dreams into reality by making something that couldn't be thought by an average indian. But I don't know why I feel that the indian people lack the passion for creating things perfectly. For example let's take things made in america and compare them to the same made in india. Why is there so much difference in perfection? I yesterday met a man or more accurately a "luhaar". I tried to get him to make a knife of my design and from my choice of material but he simply took it the other way and at the end of day the result was that it left a bitter taste in my mouth for the quality of indian products. I'd like for all IFG members to give opinions about this. If possible share an experience with me on this topic.

Seedha Aadmi. 22s too younng an age to be so pessimistic. Now what were you trying to get done through the lohar and what was your choice of materials and what led to the disappointment. If you can elaborate mayne we can help..

Regards
Moin.

I dont agree with you Seedhaadmi, its probably you finding the jewel in Mumbai pothole, try hard and dig deeper. The world agrees we have unmatchable craftsmanship in great abundance. I back Moin's suggestion to provide more details.

Seedha admi,

What you experienced is a common occurence and not restricted to India alone.

Most people do a job because they have to earn a living, not because they love it. Some of them are conscientious and get good results, whilst others aren't and their work isn't upto the mark.

There could also be other reasons for the blacksmith not meeting your expectations:

1. Lacked experience.

2. He thought he knew better than you.

3. He may not have been satisfied with the amount you were prepared to pay.

4. He was having a bad day.

Anyway, let's have a look at what was made.

seedaadmi is right,there are very few you can count on perfection,like jewels..?examples for imperfection is never ending.most of our makes are so,we have to accept.
regards
dr.jk

@Moin I was there at lohar to make a throwing knife. I got hold of some steel bar which was hard to chip. I worked out a design similar to kunai. I took it up to the lohar to heat treat it, cut it in the pattern I made on a paper & sharpen the edges.

And even then he managed to screw up things. What he did was, he made the steel bar too brittle and cut it unevenly I.e. non symmetrical in length, width & thickness. At the end when I threw it at a wooden board it broke in atleast 4 major peices & many minor peices.

Any way that is just one example. When I go to purchase key rings even then I can clearly see the low quality of metal. No one seem to care about the quality. Even when I bought an air gun the quality was so dull as compared to my grandpa's air gun.

@mack the knife

You are absolutely right there.

Also one more thing the steel was 440A. It was quite hard to find it here in Rohtak. I didn't knew where to look so most of the time ended up looking in the wrong places. What I want to achieve is a perfect knife that can be thrown, stabbed, can be used in common household works, easy to carry & does not loose it's edge for a long period of time. I think a kunai type of design may work.

A throwing knife must not be hard hence brittle so it is unlikely to make an highly abrasion resistant[edge long holding] throwing without avoiding the risk of shattering unless you use some well engineered material and perfect heat treat. You can use similar metal again as we know more about it now and just forge it to approx shape. Let it cool by itself left to a MUCH lower temperature than what was achieved previously and quench in BRINE.Work it roughly to a better shape and edge and then try throwing.If this suits your needs, finish it. If it bends or dosent hold edge , you can straighten it and/or heat treat it with BRINEr and at higher temperature than that achieved during previous heat treat. hope this helps. all the best and share pictures.

440A requires a specific heat treat to achieve peak hardness; it sounds like the lohar treated it like carbon steel. IMO leaf spring steel is perhaps your best choice for a thrower. Let the lohar use his own steel and you may get much better results, although you may want to look elsewhere if he ground it unevenly.

440A is an air cooling steel, I believe, so you don't want to brine or oil quench like you would for carbon steel.

seedha.admi wrote:Also one more thing the steel was 440A. It was quite hard to find it here in Rohtak. I didn't knew where to look so most of the time ended up looking in the wrong places. What I want to achieve is a perfect knife that can be thrown, stabbed, can be used in common household works, easy to carry & does not loose it's edge for a long period of time. I think a kunai type of design may work.

Hi How did you know it is 440A. I mean is available in the metal yards as 440A. just order Cold Steel Throwers off Knife Centre. These come in really cheap and are of a pretty decent quality. How about some pics of the blade your lohar has made.

Regards
Moin.

Moin. wrote:How about some pics of the blade your lohar has made.

And even then he managed to screw up things. What he did was, he made the steel bar too brittle and cut it unevenly I.e. non symmetrical in length, width & thickness. At the end when I threw it at a wooden board it broke in atleast 4 major peices & many minor peices.

Let's hope he has pre-throw pic.

Seedhaadmi,
My friend, this is a 'perfectly imperfect' world, where we all are striving towards 'perfectio'n in our endevours. The concept of 'perfection' is relative, the lohar thought he was doing a perfect job, his skills were not able to produce the quality you wanted. Therefore you need to find the right chap to do the job correctly. Generalising that 'perfection' is a quality which is elusive in this country, is off the mark. If you work at it long enough, you will meet the right fellows and obtain the materials and knowledge to get the 'perfection' you are looking for. I assure you, that the journey would be far more illuminating and interesting than walking upto a store and getting what you want of the counter.
Regards