Indians For Guns

Dear All,

Its been a while since I have been to the forum, was going through all the interesting discussions on edged weapons, and wanted to stir the pot on Concealed Carry blades.

Sometime ago I was able to get my hands for a short while on the Razor Razor LLC Belt Sword, designed for use by US Military troops in Afghanistan & earlier in Iraq.

The cutting edge was extremely sharp and though it is touted as being capable for thrusting, as there is no guard it could be potentially lethal for someone who is not trained in it. It is extremely light weight and a quick draw, and once you know how, you get consistent cuts as demonstrated in the you tube video.

http://www.beltsword.com/


The weapon is most lethal and I am sure will be banned in any country, however its similarity to the Urmi and the Chinese flexible sword, and the concealment capability of our very own "gupti" again in the lime light due to the Sherlock Holmes 2 got me thinking about the other concealed carry blades out there.

I was hoping that with the great wealth of knowledge here at the forum, we could all learn more about the different unique concealed systems out there (Old & New) and possibly voting to nominate the best EDC/Concealed Carry Blade

Mods, if you think this is a discussion we should not be having, kindly remove this post.

I look forward to hearing from you all.

Regards,
Adi

Adi, my vote to the boot knife. Small and wicked double edged dagger. Ofcourse it is to supplement a primary weapon like a pistol or a revolver and as a last resort.

Well this is not what I would buy and of course it will be illegal in India as the length is more than 9".

Thanks for posting the YouTube link but it was not very interesting. I found better demonstrations from the same company:





Fantastic marketing I must say

Not to mention Video 2 & 3 of the same series. YouTube made me sign in to watch these

Sorry, do not mean to discourage you but could not help it. Please share your thoughts on other systems as well and I am sure that it will be a very interesting discussion. Thanks.

Dear Rajat,

The video link I put up was from Jonathan Sarge, who is a Department of Defense contractor currently serving under CENTCOM in the Middle East. Over the last 22 years, he has served with the United States Army as a military police officer, and worked as civilian law enforcement officer and investigator. He is a martial arts expert; background as a student in Jeet Kune Do, Kali-Escrima, military and law enforcement defensive tactics, and as an instructor in Italian Two-Handed swordsmanship. Jonathan is an avid collector of Medieval European weaponry and armour, in addition to being well-founded in the antiquities community. He is also known as an unbiased, practical reviewer of quality-made swords from around the world. (IMHO)

There are some other interesting video's on the Blade Sword website.

I appreciate all comments lets keep the discussion going

Regards,
Adi

Hi Pistolero,

I am always pleased to make acquaintance with people who have similar interests . Glad that you got this topic going, we will surely dig up and discuss a lot of EDC and concealed blades etc. Do not get me wrong from this post, it was not your post but the sleazy marketing tactics of this company RazorRazor LLC.

Now coming back to the link and review: Thanks for the introduction of Jonathan Sarge "Odingaard", I am impressed. He made some good efforts in demonstrating this sword and he also might be a good reviewer: has to be if this is what he does for a living. I mean instructing or reviewing.

Honestly, I have nothing against this guy or his review, it was pretty much like every other review that you see on youtube: slashing through plastic bottles filled with water, wood sticks, concrete blocks, paper etc. You name it and it is there (Not even to mention the extreme destruction tests). The fact is that every decent edged weapon is capable of doing all this.

It was good to see Sarge wielding this sword, in fact it was better to see Rambo brandishing this Bowie in Part I First Blood. But the fact that this was the Rambo knife does not make it a good knife, although the Rambo styled knives shot up in popularity and were desired by every kid. Why not a good knife? The hollow handle and the size. Although I do not criticize the size so much as it might have use but am strongly against the hollow handle with the "survival kit". It says a lot about the strength of the knife and how tough it might be. There are a couple of exceptions to this rule but still it is what it is.

Now I am not saying that the Belt sword is no good. In fact you are the best judge and it might suit your needs but my point here is that just because it was reviewed by Mr. Sarge proves nothing.

I have nothing against Cold Steel and they have some very good blades and are quite innovative but it is their marketing tactics which sometimes bug me. They even tend to be herculean in the demonstrations and tend to overdo simple things but they are pretty good at it and do it with a flair and this is to be appreciated.

A weapon is something which is to be treated with respect and honor. I am not asking you to worship them but there has to be some dignity and respect. Weapons are not toys, all weapons no matter what.

Coming to RazorRazor LLC the makers of the Belt Sword. The company should know how to create a name for what it is known to make and create a strong image and generate respect for itself. They should know what they are making and the right ways to promote it. If they think that posting a semi clad woman (read: naked in a couple of clips as if it was not enough) waving around their sword will lure customers into buying their product then this speaks volumes about the company, their confidence in the product and desperate measures.

This is what prompted me to make the earlier post but I just put it lightly (and in fact it was quite funny to see what they uploaded on youtube), not wanting to sound righteous or harsh.

The intention of this post is just to make my point clear and this post is not intended to attack your post and views in any way. I think I made myself clear as to the reasons and do not want to engage into an argument. Thanks.

I found the comments on the videos rather amusing.
The First comment on the first video I saw" Oh cool, a tranny pulling out a sword"

On a serious note not sure how practical carrying such a large edged weapon is for self defence purposes when one is not trained to use it correctly. Very easy to hurt yourself with your own weapon I think.

Best Regards
Moin.

P.S: "Sometime ago I was able to get my hands for a short while on the Razor Razor LLC Belt Sword, designed for use by US Military troops in Afghanistan & earlier in Iraq. "

Adi, Why would any infantryman or a soldier want to carry this, when you have a standard issue Assault rifle, a side arms and a very practical standard issue knife.

Hi Guys,

Appreciate all your inputs and thoughts. The tranny video was tardy in my opinion as well, however the key point of our discussion is the Belt Sword and its capability as a top EDC/Concealed Carry blade, and also to learn about new systems out there.

Im hoping you guys can shine some light on similar or other systems which we all do not know about and would learn more from this exchange.

To answer Moin's question on why would the infantry soldier carry this, well from what little I have got to understand is that this is being used by soldiers in Urban Deployments, and also out in the field in Afghanistan. How & Why I still do not know.

Got some basics about the Belt Sword from Curtis Koehler owner of Razor, which are listed below:

BeltSword Weapon System - BWS
• BWS - Patented system to hold, bend, and conceal a RazorSword (Sword) around your waist.
• BWS - Worlds first modern sword weapon system concealing a 1.5” by 24” to 33” inch long RazorSword
• BWS is the first sword-type weapon system to be tested in modern warfare by US Special Operations
• BWS with the corresponding RazorSword is hidden and worn in total comfort.
• Dull rounded edge mono-blade RazorSword 26-33 inch long RazorSword will penetrate ½ inch plywood 3/4-inch to over 1-inch inch deep.
• BWS is being tested by US Special Operations – Combined Security Transition Command – Afghanistan
• Law enforcement uses the BWS in training and in executive protection

RazorSwords – Battle Ready Swords
• RazorSwords are manufactured with 1075 or 1095 high carbon spring steel. Specially tempered
• High quality high carbon spring steel – same material used in industry to cut leather and even other metals.
• Each RazorSword is specially heat treated (tempered) by a company here in the United States.
• All fabrication of blades and leather is done by hand here in the United States
• RazorRazor spent years working with engineers in metallurgy to obtain the finest quality materials
• Lightweight spring steel allows for near instant acceleration to the highest velocity and kinetic energy
• Double the weight of a sword; you only increase the kinetic energy at a rate of 2-x. Double the speed of a sword; you increase the kinetic energy at a geometric rate of 4x’s. (Reasoning for a light fast RazorSword)
• RazorRazor manufactures a military grade laminated heavy-weight variant of the RazorSword

Making History
No other edged weapon system in the world (or in history) that has combined the following into one system:
• A lamination process/system whereby multiple RazorSword Blades are secured to one another. The steel blades are not touching – they “float” (On an ultra-thin layer of liquid sticky grease) at the molecular level; a process called molecular adhesion. Not only does it create a heavy-weight RazorSword blade with greater lethality; but allows for the tension/stress created during bending the process to be dispersed over the length of the blade/weapon system – this insures the integrity of the steel; thus the high carbon spring steel will never deform – it will always return to a perfectly straight/flat line when deployed in battle.
• A RazorSword heavy weight / increased steel thickness – that can bend to 270 Degrees (And more); yet return to a perfectly flat and straight configuration
• Laminated Blades Only: The capacity to stack (add/subtract) blades in both hardness and materials to create a sword with new physical characteristics / variants / properties. (Kevlar, carbon fiber, etc)
• Hide / conceal a large sword in a patented containment system. (Patent granted 12.28.10)
• Strikes instantly; there is no transition from deployment to strike…one continuous motion
• Weapon experts and trainers have stated; “Deployment is faster that a concealed carry handgun”.
• Retired Special Forces; “I could kill 2-3 of the enemy…before they could react…in dead silence!”


Look forward to hearing from you guys on the above and on new systems out there!

Regards,

Hi Guys,

Did not hear from you all so writing in again! Any word on any new EDC/Conceal Carry blades?

Regards,
Aditya

Hello All,

Its been like 5 years since this post! I am reviving this thread.

At the time of posting this, the Razor Sword Company had just started out. Needless to say the initial marketing videos, with the scantily clad models, did not exactly evince much confidence. Although the product was solid. Curt did take a lot of crticisim.

I was fortunately on recent travel introduced to his products again. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that not only has his business grown, he has launched new products.

Visit http://www.razorrazor.com to know more about them.

The products from the Indian Context which I am really interested in, and would like to request our legal experts to chime in, is the Razor Baton. It is a Non Sharpened, blunt edged, Piece of Steel. Now would the Police and the Law classify this as a weapon requiring license?





(Note the Razor baton achieves the same destructive kinetic energy without the edge)

Also the concealed 9 Inch Razor Knife, as it is within parameters, but totally concealed, would this classify as legal?



Would love some advise, am about to order the Baton for conceal carry in India, and wanted to understand the potential pitfalls.

Regards,
-P

pistolero wrote:Now would the Police and the Law classify this as a weapon requiring license?

A weapon that does not have sharpened edge cannot be called knife, sword etc. May also read the reply given to essdee1972 here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=24934&start=15#p247692

Hello Goodboy_Mentor,

I did reply to your post, unfortunately I went offline and the reply has not been posted.

Thank You for you advise, much appreciated.

Did read the reply to essdde, agree that if I encounter a corrupt office, it could be a potential problem.

Will go ahead and order, if I do get stuck I will definitely call on you to take up my case

Regards,
-P

pistolero wrote:Will go ahead and order, if I do get stuck I will definitely call on you to take up my case

Regards,
-P

He is not a lawyer, so you may have a hard time getting him to represent you!

Hi Mundaire,

Assumption is the Mother of all _____ Ups.

Glad you set the record straight

I always assumed that he was a lawyer, given his depth of knowledge on the subject.

Still going ahead and ordering

Regards,
-P

pistolero wrote:if I do get stuck I will definitely call on you to take up my case

Not practicing for a living as advocate. Yes sometimes do get suggestions from family members and friends to enter this profession. May be in future will start practicing as a passion and not as a profession. Anyways coming to the point, it is always better to hire an experienced local advocate, since he would be familiar with the mentality of local judges and police officers and how to deal with them.

Dear Goodboy_Mentor,

Thanks for all your advice. Hopefully it will never come to that.

But if it does, I will be sure to heed your advise.


Regards,
-P