Sikh Arms & Armour

All Things Sharp and Pointed: compound and crossbows, knives and swords.
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:15 pm

Airgun Novice,

That was a very interesting insight into Shivaji and the weapons! Not too far from the topic as we were discussing a North/Western Indian Weapon similar to the Urumi.

The Patta and the Dand Patta have been confused from time to time, however though both are 'Gauntlet Weapons' but one is a fixed blade, while the other is a flexible blade.

The Maratha Patta (to my mind the fixed blade) is as below:
Image

Dand Patta in Action :) You can clearly see the blade flexing!
Image



Katanaji, please clarify is this the weapon you are referring to?

Also after some research I realized the weapon we are all discussing about is the Aara (Loosely translated a SAW) which was indeed used by the Nihangs. It is very similar to the Urumi, but I believe the strips are serrated, and not plain steel like the Urumi, hence the word Aara. I am however not sure about this, and any insight will be most welcome.
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:28 pm

Dear Moin,

To answer your question on the Unique Weapon of the Sikh's I would say that would indeed be the Dastaar Boonga, I am currently not aware of any other warrior sect actually making such extensive use of headgear, and that too in battle! The chakkars are unique in a way to the Sikhs, coz long after they were not used by the Rajputs, the Sikhs continued to use them, well into their battles with the British.

DA Kinsleys Book, mentioned earlier, Sword Fighters of British India, will give you an insight into this.

Moreso in my mind, what makes each warrior unique, is what he brings to the to the Battle field in terms of discipline, skill, courage, passions & determination, and I think it can safely be said that the Sikh Warriors was well endowed with all :D

I will be shortly posting more on the "Kirpan" moving ahead, if any member can add more on the weapons already covered, please do so.

Regards,
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:42 pm

The Kirpan is one of the Five K's of Sikhism and has a revered place among weapons. The sacred kirpan carried by Sikhs had traditionally been the full length tulwar, however around the 20th century the kirpan has evolved from the typical tulwar sword to a short blade less than 18 inches in length.

The change in blade length of the sacred kirpan from a sword to a knife was a difficult one for Sikhs and a direct result of laws passed by the British in India. Under the Indian Arms Act (XI) of 1878, no person could carry arms except under special exemption or by virtue of a licence; the act was applied to the Sikh kirpan as well. At the beginning of World War I, the British government feared that the ban would affect Sikh recruitment into the British Army, and decided to relax the enforcement of the act. Between 1914 and 1918, two notifications were issued by the British government giving Sikhs the freedom to possess or carry a kirpan. However the terms of these notifications were vague; with no clear guideline on the size and shape of the kirpan; this resulted in the willful prosecution of the Sikhs for wearing, carrying and manufacturing the kirpan. During the period of the Gurudwara Reform Movement (1920-1925), the British revoked the notifications and Sikhs were once again prosecuted and imprisoned, Sikh soldiers in the armed forces were even court marshalled and dismissed for keeping kirpans. In 1921 the kirpan factories at Bhera and Sialkot in Punjab were raided and all kirpans in excess 9 inches were seized and the owners of the factories were arrested. Finally in 1922 after negotiations between the British and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee the Sikhs again won the right to carry their kirpans, although now with a much shorter blade. This resulted in the development of a Modern Kirpan, which we see our Sikh Brothers carrying all around us.

To give an insight into the History im posting a photo of the 'Amrit' ceremony where you can see all the attendees carrying full length swords.

Image

More to come :D
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by .32 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:35 pm

Fantastic Thread OP.

Here's a shabad by the 10th Guru of Sikhs, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji:

This Shabad is by Guru Gobind Singh in Amrit Keertan on Pannaa 295

doihrw ]
dhohiraa ||


As ikRpwn KMfo KVg qupk qbr Aru qIr ]
as kripaan kha(n)ddo kharrag thupak thabar ar theer ||

sY& srohI sYQI XhY hmwrY pIr ]3]
sai sarohee saithhee yehai hamaarai peer ||3||

qIr quhI sYQI quhI quhI qbr qrvwr ]
theer thuhee saithhee thuhee thuhee thabar tharavaar ||

nwm iqhwro jo jpY BXy isMD Bv pwr ]4]
naam thihaaro jo japai bhayae si(n)dhh bhav paar ||4||

kwl quhI kwlI quhI quhI qyg Ar qIr ]
kaal thuhee kaalee thuhee thuhee thaeg ar theer ||

quhI inswnI jIq kI Awj quhI jg bIr ]5]
thuhee nisaanee jeeth kee aaj thuhee jag beer ||5||



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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by dsingh » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:19 pm

airgun_novice wrote:The patta has a single blade fixed at the hilt. It' still is flexible and could be folded around the waist with the glove sticking out. It had a metal sleeve or glove into which the arm (for right handed swordsman it was the left since the right held the sword) could be slipped into. BTW, I always had the Qn on how the joint (between the glove and the blade) was created.

The urumi has at least two and sometimes more (and thinner) blades and is more flexible plus is usually coiled and tied. The hilt is "open" and thus can be nicely hidden within the cumberband.

The coiled state of both releases the potential energy added with the element of surprise. Now one of the versions of urumi has a rotating blade set (since we consider the hilt to be fixed in hand) at the hilt and requires even greater skill than "regular" urumi and is also rarely taught at kalaris; usually to one or two exceptionally skilled students who have potential to be Masters (gurukkul) themselves.

The slightly "stiffer" nature plus the radius (arm + say 5-6') of the patta would have posed a problem while using it on horseback or in tight infantry unit. So probably it was also less used even in those times - hence so few "experts". I would say its usage would have been restricted to rarified (entrenched) formation v/s more tightly formed (and numerous) enemy unit - thus one would have to be one's own backup in a situation where say 5-6 people would surround. The patta could then be used to "allow" in the fight zone circle, one or two attackers at a time for swordfight.

Patta was thus a supplement weapon to the sword - either khanda or talwar and if you chose to wield it, you lost out on usage of the shield. Urumi was a stand alone weapon and had the shield as a defensive weapon/ guard to support it. Plus a (sword+shield) combo is good for infantry, cavalry on flat or in mountainous terrain while (urumi+shield) is good for flat open ground where attackers are far less in numbers and can spread out. Due to its over-flexible nature the urumi would have to be used in stooped (bent at knees) posture while the patta could also be used standing/ jumping or with exceptional skill on horseback. The danD-patta like the tiger claws would best be (usually) used in duels, practice or demonstrations.

My thinking - so I could be wrong up here.

During Shivaji-Afzal meet only 4-6 people were inside the huge shamiana. Shivaji, Afzal, Sayyed, Jiva Mahala and the two 'vakils'. Afzal's army was outside at some distance while Shivaji's 'Mawalas' were nicely hidden in forest. Only 8-10 bodyguards of each were waiting outside the shamiana in the immediate vicinity. So while Shivaji was Sayyed's target, as was pre-planned (remember Sayyed's reputation with the patta was wide spread), Sayyed was Jiva's target from the start. Afzal Khan was always marked out by Shivaji. Shivaji was one of the few leaders who actually led from the front in the battles he participated in, rather than direct from afar. Hence the nomination of Netaji Palkar as his succcessor, if Afzal Khan had managed to kill him. May be in preparation, Sayyed was standing right next to Afzal Khan initially and Shivaji actually had to ask the Khan to re-position him. Jiva also "moved away" in deference to the wishes and thus positioned himself if Sayyed tried his skills. Interestingly enough historians have noted this movement of personal bodyguards and the exchange.

Couple of points to be noted -
1. Afzal Khan had tried similar modus operandi with another king (forgot his name). Plus his rape & slaughter of innocent civilians and intolerance towards all the temples he came across (including birth-place of Bhakti Movement (Pandharpur), Shivaji's Kul-daiwat (Tulza Bhawani), the Mahaganaapti temple of Wai, selection of Sayyed as his bodyguard and his initial position etc. all point out to Khan's intentions. Incidentally, Afzal Khan had no problem with the temple at Wai during his Subhedari there. He did publicly vow to kill Shivaji at the Adilshahi court before he set out. Hence the claim of treachery by Shivaji as was perpetrated by one Adilshahi historian is without merit.

2. Shivaji did not technically kill the Khan. Khan's head was cut off by another of Shivaji's bodyguards stationed outside - Sambhaji Kavji - as the wounded Khan tried to escape. Sayyed's patta did take a knick at Shivaji's head - but again Shivaji was protected by the iron skull cap inside his "feta"(OK ok - not sure of the name here, but a typical turban associated with Shivaji). Jiva already in motion dispatched off both Sayyed and then the Khan's vakil. Shows us the importance of HELMET. :-)

Moin you are right - there are a couple of dand-pattas with wagh-nakhs (tiger claws) which are at display at PoW (now Jijamata) museum but they are kept straightened out for ease of display. Do not really reveal their flexible nature. May be the patta also folded inside the gauntlet, but then it would have to be very flexible.

But as we understand, Shivaji had worn his armor inside his shirt and had wagh-nakhs and the bichwa concealed inside the cumberband since Afzal Khan's directive was that he should come in un-armed. Wearing a gauntlet in the open would have given the precautions away at the start. Only after Khan's failed attempt to stab Shivaji in the back with his khanjar (due to the armor), Shivaji used the tiger claws to inflict wounds and got himself released from the Khan's one arm choke around the neck (almost blacking him out) and then used the bichwa to stab open Afzal Khan's tummy. Afzal Khan was one of the strongest persons known then and had reputation of bending crow-bars or lifting small canons at darbar demonstrations.

Again - my apologies for going OT with the story of the Maharaj, but felt it was relevant here and actually 'revolved' around the danD-patta. :sorry:

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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by dsingh » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:26 pm

Surry for pressing wrong button in my pc the baghnakha I have seen with a Gataka fighter recently he showed how it can be hidden and Bichua along with baghnakha r concealed arms bichua has flexible handle sometimes but never used like dagger rather tighted upwards to fist or forearm and can be very lethal in counter attack in fight.I am surprised by the medivel sikhs mastery use of heavy swords like khanda,tegha,during war till 19th century as written by british officials during anglo-sikh wars as britishers feared heavy swords more than firearms.

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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by Biren » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:52 am

Its one of very informative post and lively discussion. Thanks Pistolero.

Cheers
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by Katana » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:24 pm

Katanaji, please clarify is this the weapon you are referring to?
No, this is the patta.
To answer your question on the Unique Weapon of the Sikh's I would say that would indeed be the Dastaar Boonga, I am currently not aware of any other warrior sect actually making such extensive use of headgear, and that too in battle!
I agree with you completely. The dastar booga was actually a collection of weapons in the Sikh's headgear, and he could draw upon his collection to use the one that he wanted to use at a particular time. Mughal-Rajput-Marattha arms, before the full scale adoption of guns and gun powder were on the heavier side.
Katanaji; what is the difference between the Jhaji and the Asi Sword. Most of the Talwars that I see with the Nihangs are the large Teha Type of Blades, any specific reason for these finding favour apart from the obvious fact of people in that region being of a bigger built and physique compared to the rest of the country.
Do give me some time. I'll give you the details with pictures. That way it would be easier to understand, although the differences are rather fine.
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:53 pm

We are all aware of the Term EDC, the Kirpan to my mind is one of the foremost EDC of the modern times. Amrit Dhari Sikhs are expected to keep the Kirpan with them at all times, and the Kirpan is much a recognition of the Sikh as the other 4 K's.

In the following images it is my attempt to highlight the different kind of Kirpans, I look forward to your contributions on this discussion:

Image
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Image
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More to Follow :)
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:46 pm

Image
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:01 pm

Image
Image
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:44 pm

The Khanda is the very representation of the Sikh Community and among all Swords, Khanda holds the same importance to Sikhs & Other Indian Warriors as the Katana does to the Japanese Samurai.

A weapon of Last Resort and supremely beautiful blade meant to used for the drawing cut, has been in the Indian Armoury from a long time. The word Khanda comes from the word Khadga, which means Sword, and is also derived from "Khand" which means to destroy.

The straight sword can be viewed on Indian Temples, references trace back a similar sword to almost 300 AD. The Khanda is a truly Indian Sword, as over time the design of the straight sword, as can be seen below, meant for thrusting, has evolved to a slashing weapon. Most straight swords can trace their ancestry back to the Roman Gladius a thrusting weapon.
Image

The front runner to todays Khanda is the Pattisa, though the design of both weapons is the same, and very little separates the two weapons, the Patissa does not have the additional strengthening strip on the spine. In the Video Link below you can see Shree Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Khanda, which IMHO is a Patissa.


The design of the Khanda has evolved over a period of time, it is my attempt to post a series of pictures and videos to demonstrate this. I am looking forward to contributions from you all.
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by Moin. » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:24 pm

pistolero wrote:The Khanda is the very representation of the Sikh Community and among all Swords, Khanda holds the same importance to Sikhs & Other Indian Warriors as the Katana does to the Japanese Samurai.

A weapon of Last Resort and supremely beautiful blade meant to used for the drawing cut, has been in the Indian Armoury from a long time. The word Khanda comes from the word Khadga, which means Sword, and is also derived from "Khand" which means to destroy.

The straight sword can be viewed on Indian Temples, references trace back a similar sword to almost 300 AD. The Khanda is a truly Indian Sword, as over time the design of the straight sword, as can be seen below, meant for thrusting, has evolved to a slashing weapon. Most straight swords can trace their ancestry back to the Roman Gladius a thrusting weapon.
[ Image ]

The front runner to todays Khanda is the Pattisa, though the design of both weapons is the same, and very little separates the two weapons, the Patissa does not have the additional strengthening strip on the spine. In the Video Link below you can see Shree Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Khanda, which IMHO is a Patissa.


The design of the Khanda has evolved over a period of time, it is my attempt to post a series of pictures and videos to demonstrate this. I am looking forward to contributions from you all.
I so want one, thank you for the wonderful post, did'nt know what Patissa was so thank you.

Here are some pics I had.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:49 pm

Some Examples of Patissa:

Image

Image

Comparing a Khanda with Basket Hilt
Image
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Re: Sikh Arms & Armour

Post by pistolero » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:53 pm

Image
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