To all my non hunting armchair-conservationists

[shooter]

Dear friends with whom I have had light banter as well as intelluctual debates during my stay here,

Heres an article which might interest you.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 140128.ece

Trophy hunters fund rhino charity

SAVE THE RHINO, the British charity set up to protect one of the world’s most endangered animals, is endorsing the shooting of them for fun and is directly profiting from “trophy hunts” of other species.

The London-based charity has decided to endorse the controversial practice of rich hunters shooting rhinoceroses after being approached by a hunting lobby group offering money.

Safari Club International (SCI) has so far donated about £32,000 to the charity, much of it raised by auctioning the trophy hunts to shooting enthusiasts.

The charity said it adopted its stance, which is at odds with many other wildlife organisations, after deciding to be “not sentiment-driven” about conservation and encourage the “sustainable use” of animals.

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“We don’t want to see animals being killed but it’s the situation we are in,” said Lucy Boddam-Whetham, the charity’s fundraising manager, who admitted the issue was “extremely emotive”. “It’s looking at all the different ways we can make sure we get money for conservation coming in.”

She said the charity had formed its view on trophy hunting after being approached by SCI with offers of money in 2006. Since then SCI has donated sums of between £6,000 and £10,000 a year.

“Our position came out of whether we would accept funds from SCI,” Boddam-Whetham said. “Having discussed the pros and cons we felt overwhelmingly in favour of the SCI partnership. The realities of 21st-century conservation means compromises and difficult decisions need to be made.”

She said rhino conservationists could not rely on the animals acting as a draw for tourists on wildlife-watching safaris in Africa as the industry was financially “not very high yielding”.

Matthew Eckert, manager of conservation for SCI, said his hunting organisation was only too pleased to find a willing recipient of its money in Save the Rhino. It had been snubbed by some other charities.

He said: “We are struggling with gaining credibility. It’s difficult with being a hunting organisation who hunts endangered or threatened species when the public doesn’t know that hunting these species can actually benefit them.”

Although there are five rhino species remaining worldwide, only two — the black and white rhinos that both live in Africa — can be legally hunted.

Since 2004, hunters have been able to pay to shoot up to 10 black rhino a year in Namibia and South Africa, at a cost of up to £170,000 each. The animal, which is officially listed as critically endangered, numbers only about 4,200 in the wild. White rhinos, which were once facing extinction as a species, now number about 17,800 and have the status of “near threatened”. They can be hunted in South Africa on private reserves at a cost of about £12,000 each.

Both species are threatened by poachers who kill them for their horns — which can be sold for up to £41,000 a kilo and are used in Chinese medicine and for ornamental purposes. Other threats include the steady erosion of their natural habitats.

Campaigners for trophy hunting say that by allowing hunters to shoot rhinos, the proceeds can be invested into ensuring the future safety of the species by paying for more anti-poaching measures.

Eckert, whose club’s members number 53,000 worldwide and include hunters who have shot rhino, said: “The [African] governments have retention schemes and they track the money. They distribute and allocate it to how they see fit into rhino conservation and sustainable development. Most of, if not all, the money is returned to rhino conservation.”

He said only mature males past their reproductive prime were selected to be hunted and that by removing them, the breeding females were more likely to mate with younger, more virile specimens.

In Namibia, where all black rhinos are owned by the state, money from the hunts is also said to be distributed to the local population, giving them an incentive to keep the rhino populations viable. Concerns have been raised, however, that rhino hunts in South Africa are not as strictly regulated and even that some hunts might be implicated in the illegal trade of rhino horn.

Laura Bailey, the fashion model who was until recently one of Save the Rhino’s patrons, said she was “very surprised” to hear about the charity’s endorsement of hunting the animals it wanted to save. “I will look into it privately, but I’m not going to comment without doing some more research,” she added.

Some other wildlife campaigners oppose Save the Rhino’s policy. Will Travers, chief executive of the Born Free Foundation, an animal welfare charity that opposes trophy hunting, said: “I find the whole concept deeply depressing.”

He added: “There seems something deeply unethical about championing rhino conservation and then using the money from rhino killed for ‘fun’ to protect some of those that remain.”

A British shooting magazine, Sporting Rifle, has also announced an auction of trophy hunts of animals such as wild boar, muntjac and red deer with all the proceeds to go to Save the Rhino.

Peter Carr, editor of Sporting Rifle, said the magazine was hoping to raise a minimum of £6,000 for Save the Rhino from its auctioning of hunts for which readers will email bids. “It will be cash that saves the rhinos, not tears,” he said.

Weighty patrons

Since it was founded in 1994, Save the Rhino has attracted numerous high-profile supporters.

Its founding patrons included Douglas Adams author of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy series, who helped raise its profile by climbing Mount Kilimanjaro in a rhino costume. Runners in similar suits completing marathons for the charity have since become a familiar sight.

Save the Rhino’s current patrons include Martina Navratilova, the former tennis champion, who won £86,000 for the charity on the US version of Who Wants to be a Millionaire?.

[prashantsingh]

"Non Hunting Armchair-Conservationists".
Non Hunting--- Great . What we reallyt need in India.
Armchair-Conservationists--We have so many of them here.

Like the article correctly points out that the real threat is from the Poacher and not from an ethical Trophy Hunter.

In India the main threat is from the Poacher and the Loss of habitat .

[hvj1]

Aaaaah! Ha, ha, haah!

Thanks shooter for waving the red rag under the nose of this bull. Nothing like having a good ole barroom brawl, where after the heat and dust settles, we all hitch up (figuratively speaking) shoulder to shoulder to the bar, irrigating our throats in easy camaraderie.

First and foremost your term, ‘non hunting armchair conservationists’ appears derogatory. The term implies that hunters are the superior conservationist species, while non hunters or those like me, who have given up hunting, wishing to stake claims to conservation are children of a lesser God. Further any attempts by us either by communicating our thoughts on the subject, are automatically brushed aside, since they carry no weight with the white bwana.

Secondly, (without pontificating), all actions, spring from thoughts, so even if somebody who is not as knowledgeable as most regarding species, their habits and habitats, do harbor well meant intentions towards conservation. They eventually do contribute, in their own way and more importantly, according to their priorities in life. In India and elsewhere too, these priorities assume far greater significance, considering the rat race we all find ourselves in for achieving our immediate goals of home and hearth for our immediate near and dear ones. Eventually, those of us who manage to achieve said objectives, do turn towards nobler causes, such as conservation. Till then, it’s the armchair for most of us.

So, by making such a statement,’ non-hunting armchair conservationists’, is to deprive the sheen of even those noble intentions, which we quietly fosters in our minds, awaiting an opportune period in our lives.

Finally. Those of us who are not as knowledgeable as some of you, who have actively contributed towards some sort of conservation, do look towards your noblesse oblige, for affirmative action on conservation, which we could all join. This is the reason why, I have set out on my own quest, Koyna Chandoli NGO, we have hit a few hurdles, but considering the response from other like minded persons (non hunting armchair conservationists and hunters alike), we will get to it in the fullness of time.
Best Regards.

[fantumfan2003]

Shooter,

I am quite certain your post is an attempt to send out a wakeup call. Here is the reality though.

This is India. A land where respect for human life is found severely lacking. To talk of having respect for wildlife, which is perceived as a threat to the farmers and their livestock, might seem like a wasteful exercise.

Mind you I was not one of those armchair conservationist types and did my wee bit once to educate slum dwellers around the periphery of Borivli National Park in Mumbai on how to keep away from the leopards in BNP.

To cut a long story short, Its a tough job with great risk to ones well being. I simply do not have the courage to take on the wrath of the slum dada's, the lethargic forest dept, the builder lobby and the local politicians. They are all much more powerful than me in the present circumstances. There are many "conservationists" like me and that is why real conservation does not take place.

As for poaching the latest India Today magazine is an insightful but sad read.

M.

[shooter]

Dear HVJ, firstly you are not an armchair conservationist. Secondlly you of all people should.....no imean you do know i am not trying to demean anyone. If one is interested, knowledge will come with time and with knowledge, the mindset changes.

Ok lets make it more clear:

i am dividing conservationists into 4
types:

Hunting conservationists
Hunting armchair conservationists (lets presume for theoritical sake)
Non hunting conservationists
Non hunting arm-chair conservationists

Please note i am not addressing (non-conservationists- either hunting or poaching types).

Now this post is meant for the latter category of people and maybe something for them to think about.It is also meant to bring money to your NGO.

Dear Fantumfan: I can understand the issues faced in educating the masses in india.
I have posted long ago about trying to educate a servant about the conservatin of the tiger and the fiasco. (ill have to search the topic and paste the link).

All i want is for the mindset to change and for all of us to realise that we all have made the difference (in the decimation of wild life_ both hunters and non hunters) and so lets try to make a difference in conserving.

Whether it is India or anwhere else, If a sadak ka bhikhari can understand cricket whose rules even great majority of university educated westerners cant, surely with the right education, and programmes, masses can understand the importance of environment.

Bhai ek aadmi hi shuruat karta hai.

When i was 14, i calculated that 1 aircooler(very popular in Rajasthan because of low humidity and therefore amazing cooling properties) uses 150l water a day (at least). Multiply by number of coolers in a house and numbers of houses in my city and you get millions of litres of water used just for cooling and this during the time when people were dying of thirst!!!
So I asked oldies what they did before coolers were the nor I was told people slept on the roof. I tried it out and it was cool, really good. Everyone laughed saying "pagal hai; basti walon ki tarah bahar sota hai"

Today when theres a crisis looming and water is an issue in elections and the first time the govt saying it cant give water during elections, everyone says they should have given more thought to conserving water.

I dont want the same to happen to the tiger. Bhai I am giving this example not to show off/have made fun of myself but to say if we all decide, we can make a difference. How we are responsible for the decimation of the wildlife, and how that can change, has been mentioned in my several posts.

Changing the mindset is very important.

[hvj1]

Dear Shooter,
Sorry Old chap! I misunderstod you.

i am dividing conservationists into 4
types:

Hunting conservationists
Hunting armchair conservationists (lets presume for theoritical sake)
Non hunting conservationists
Non hunting arm-chair conservationists

So if we remove the prefix, we are all sailing in the same boat - conservation.

Bhai ek aadmi hi shuruat karta hai.

When i was 14, i calculated that 1 aircooler(very popular in Rajasthan because of low humidity and therefore amazing cooling properties) uses 150l water a day (at least). Multiply by number of coolers in a house and numbers of houses in my city and you get millions of litres of water used just for cooling and this during the time when people were dying of thirst!!!
So I asked oldies what they did before coolers were the nor I was told people slept on the roof. I tried it out and it was cool, really good. Everyone laughed saying "pagal hai; basti walon ki tarah bahar sota hai"

I do the same, sleep on the terrace, whenever I can.

So what say, time to irrigate our throats?

BR

-- Mon May 31, 2010 2:54 pm --

To cut a long story short, Its a tough job with great risk to ones well being. I simply do not have the courage to take on the wrath of the slum dada's, the lethargic forest dept, the builder lobby and the local politicians. They are all much more powerful than me in the present circumstances. There are many "conservationists" like me and that is why real conservation does not take place.

Hats off to you mate.
Best Regards

[fantumfan2003]

Shooter,

Changing the mindset is the most dificult and probably even an impossible task.

As hvj1 put it very well, A lot of other priorities such as struggle and survival for self and beloved ones makes sure that such noble tasks as conservation will get neglected.

When does charity start ? when there is spare money to give away, right ?
When will conservation start, when people have spare time to give. Where is the spare time with most people ?

People don't have time and don't want to commit to such causes. Those few who might will face unsurmountable hurdles.

And frankly people are not interested in the flaura and fauna. If they cared, we would not have seen what we are witnessing today.

The situation is so serious that by the time awareness programs do raise the awareness to high levels the poachers would have brought the populations of the big cats to zero and the jungles and fauna will follow.

Panna still happened inspite of the PM intervening in Sariska isn't it ?

I fear we will be amongst Rats, Crows, Mosquitoes, Lizards, Bedbugs, Cockroaches, Cats and Dogs thanks to the so called Friends of Animals. But we will not have any Lions, Tigers, Leopards and everything and everyone below them because we did not listen enough to the conservationists.

There is a glimmer of hope. Its a crazy idea but nevertheless. We the people who really care about flora and fauna could pool in money and buy huge tracts of forest lands and declare them a no fly zone to the junta. Can't think of a better way to do it. And people who subscribe to such schemes should get benefits in Incometax. It might just work.

As I said crazy idea.

M.

Dear Fantumfan: I can understand the issues faced in educating the masses in india.
I have posted long ago about trying to educate a servant about the conservatin of the tiger and the fiasco. (ill have to search the topic and paste the link).

All i want is for the mindset to change and for all of us to realise that we all have made the difference (in the decimation of wild life_ both hunters and non hunters) and so lets try to make a difference in conserving.

Whether it is India or anwhere else, If a sadak ka bhikhari can understand cricket whose rules even great majority of university educated westerners cant, surely with the right education, and programmes, masses can understand the importance of environment.

Bhai ek aadmi hi shuruat karta hai.

Changing the mindset is very important.

[shooter]

There is a glimmer of hope. Its a crazy idea but nevertheless. We the people who really care about flora and fauna could pool in money and buy huge tracts of forest lands and declare them a no fly zone to the junta. Can't think of a better way to do it. And people who subscribe to such schemes should get benefits in Incometax. It might just work.

As I said crazy idea.

No bro not crazy at all. Steve Irvin has done it in Australia and to some extent it is being done in the uk and elsewhere too. Not writing details here. Bhai I have the same idea and more but the first thing is to recruit people and show them the importance. Bro. agar aap mai aur hvj agree, why cant we find more like minded people. bhai paise se pehle niyat zaroori hai. Maybe if by reading our posts,even if a person starts thinking about stuff, we have achieved somehting. Bhai even just visiting national parks is better than nothing. At least buying tickets there will get them some revenue.
Thereare many ideas andwe need people to impliment them.
See one good thing about this thread. Imet someone likeminded ....you.
So i feel its not a wasted effort.

[fantumfan2003]

I have always believed and it is an observation that has been re-affirmed time and again that most gun enthusiasts love wildlife and jungles in one or the other and they are also keen photographers. Of course I am all three.

Let us probe what we can do further to increase the awareness.

M.

There is a glimmer of hope. Its a crazy idea but nevertheless. We the people who really care about flora and fauna could pool in money and buy huge tracts of forest lands and declare them a no fly zone to the junta. Can't think of a better way to do it. And people who subscribe to such schemes should get benefits in Incometax. It might just work.

As I said crazy idea.

No bro not crazy at all. Steve Irvin has done it in Australia and to some extent it is being done in the uk and elsewhere too. Not writing details here. Bhai I have the same idea and more but the first thing is to recruit people and show them the importance. Bro. agar aap mai aur hvj agree, why cant we find more like minded people. bhai paise se pehle niyat zaroori hai. Maybe if by reading our posts,even if a person starts thinking about stuff, we have achieved somehting. Bhai even just visiting national parks is better than nothing. At least buying tickets there will get them some revenue.
Thereare many ideas andwe need people to impliment them.
See one good thing about this thread. Imet someone likeminded ....you.
So i feel its not a wasted effort.

[hvj1]

Dear Shooter, Fantumfan,
When Pandora opened her box and let loose all the ills of this world, she also let out,one last creature called 'hope'. So also, as long as there are gentlemen who feel and care about conservation, like you both do, there is 'hope'
Best Regards

[shooter]

All for one one for all,

lets not forget our d'atragnon prashantsingh.

[brihacharan]

by prashantsingh » Mon May 31, 2010 8:48 am
"Non Hunting Armchair-Conservationists".
Non Hunting--- Great . What we reallyt need in India.
Armchair-Conservationists--We have so many of them here.
Like the article correctly points out that the real threat is from the Poacher and not from an ethical Trophy Hunter.
In India the main threat is from the Poacher and the Loss of habitat .

Hi Prashant,
> The above reminded me of the opening para in Oliver Goldsmith's 'The Vicar of Wakefield" -
"A man who married and brought up a family did more service to the community, than one who never married and while seated in an armchair extolled the praises of matrimony"!!!
> Only a gun owner & true hunter will understand & emphathize with the tenets of 'Conservation'.
Cheers
Brihacharan

[wildsdi]

Sounds like big game hunting in Africa which supported the entire continent for a long time. Tthe guys who owned the concessions were fiercly protective and kept poachers at bay. There was a Wilbur Smith novel with the same story-A time to die.

[shooter]

It was a good book.
It shows how hunting can protect animals and it works.
Also see 'elephant song' the first chapter about culling is sad but true.

-- 04 Jun 2010, 01:52 --

It was a good book.
It shows how hunting can protect animals and it works.
Also see 'elephant song' the first chapter about culling is sad but true.

[Yaj]

Only a gun owner & true hunter will understand & emphathize with the tenets of 'Conservation'.

Now that is really pushing it a bit too much isn't it?