Indians For Guns

Hello all. This is to discuss Hip dysplasia which could occur in dogs, sometimes leading to fatality. Rottlord and Yaj have valuable inputs for everyone's reference, which I am pasting below (copied from another thread)

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by RottLord » Mon Jun 22, 2009 19:56

Seems your dog is suffering from Hip Dysplasia; please keep him on these meds for the next 30 days.

1. Liv 52 DS: 2 tabs a day at 12 hrs gap.
2. Lubrijoint Plus: 2 tabs a day for the first 7 days and 1 tab a day for the next 23 days.
3. Shallaki (Boswellia Serrata): 2 tabs a day, after 2 hrs of administering Lubrijoint plus. This u must continue for 90 days; 2 capsules a day.
4. Gokshura (Tribulus Terrestis): 1 tab every night.

The first one and the last two are the products of Himalaya Healthcare. The combined effects shall start showing within 7 days of administering; the next 23 days shall reinforce this effect.

Also, if he is used to dog food, keep him on Royal Canin Berger Allemond or Junior 31. I prefer the Junior 31 formula more, because of the higher levels of Glucosamine Sulphate and Chondroitin in it.

Hope it helps.

-- Mon Jun 22, 2009 20:00 --

The Liv 52 DS shall guard the liver against the small amounts of Ascorbic acid present in Lubrijoint Plus, while Gokshura shall help keeping his hormone levels and urino-genital system up to the mark. Shallaki shall strengthen the cartilages and ligaments as well as keep the joints hydrated.

-- Mon Jun 22, 2009 20:07 --

My experiences say that vets ask u to ignore things till they become colossal; it's something they do to charge u more. My Adolf had a kidney infection and no vet could cure it; it's my own ayurvedic knowledge that saved him.
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by Yaj » Mon Jun 22, 2009 20:35

Hip dysplasia is to be confirmed by X-rays before you start treating it. Sudden transient weakness in the hinds could be due to a variety of other causes so please treat your dog after proper investigations and confirming the diagnosis.
I am sure Rottlord means well but diagnosis over the internet is not a good idea.
Regards,
Yaj.
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by RottLord » Mon Jun 22, 2009 20:49

Well Yaj, I just forgot mentioning about the x-ray; apologies Ten X.

-- Mon Jun 22, 2009 21:15 --

Rottlord and Yaj...
Thanks a million (X 2) for the advice.
But here is an untold part of what happened. Simba dragged his hind legs for a few minutes, and after my wife massaged the legs mildly, he started walking again, and even brought my shoes to me, for the morning jog. I of course bundled him to the vet straight away. He has been walking around with no signs of limpness all day since, Thank GOD, and I surely hope it is not a serious problem. The vet diagnosed the spine and hind legs of the dog with his hands, and said he most probably has some thing like a muscle cramp. It could also be because of the 8-9 feet high jumps that he does while playing ball me in the evenings. I have been advised ten days X two tabs of Evion, with relatively no running or jumping.
Although the dog and I dont like the prescription, we have so far managed one day of no running around. His appetite and metabolic waste disposal are it its normal best, and there has been no signs of any abnormalities so far.

I was about to post on your post on the other thread and then saw this.Hip Dysplasia is not to be taken lightly. When our beloved GSD Pedro developed it, it was heartbreaking for everyone in our family.We kids and he grew up together and he was an inseparable part of the family.He developed it at a relatively late age of nine and finally his both hind legs were paralysed.When at Uni,I would not go home for vacations just because I could not see him suffering. Good luck with your canine companion.Keep us posted.

Best-
Vikram

Yes Vikram.. what you say is true in every word. It is so damn difficult to even bear the thought of a lively friend like our dog to be in an incapicitated state.
Just returned from a 30 minute walk, and he was as normal as usual. I hope the problem is just a muscle catch or something, and never returns.
However, since dysplasia is so common, especially in GSDs, is there no way of preventing it?

TenX wrote:Yes Vikram.. what you say is true in every word. It is so damn difficult to even bear the thought of a lively friend like our dog to be in an incapicitated state.
Just returned from a 30 minute walk, and he was as normal as usual. I hope the problem is just a muscle catch or something, and never returns.
However, since dysplasia is so common, especially in GSDs, is there no way of preventing it?

HI ANAND,
yaj is right,x ray is the only way to diagnose the hip before any medication.
i wanted to share the experience i had with my golden,very similar case of dragging .i had gone through very similar situation of restless nights and searching for info over the net.
after a brief walk she used to get normal,cut it short,finally she was diagnosed a knee infection of a minor injury while jumping down the bed and slipping on the floor tile, and took us a while to diagnose the problem.
when after an injury she could not run the muscles at the rear didnt get enough exercise to get the strenght it tends to get weaker,i was asked by the doc to take her for swimming,as then the shock to the ligaments was less,it improved to gather the lost strength in the muscles ,with time she recovered.
nb-its not always a case of hip dysplesia.
regards sanjiv

Thanks a lot for the input Sanjiv.
I am praying its nothing worse, but will keep an eagle eye on him. If it every repeats, then the next stop will be an X-ray machine for sure

I'm following this thread with interest. Here in the USA dysplasia is considered to be genetic, and certain dogs such as police dogs that are to be trained will have X rays taken of the hips while they are still pups and before any training takes place. Here is is pretty much considered to be genetic and incurable, so I am interested to see what ayurvedic approaches can be taken. Fortunately none of the dogs we have now show any signs but they are all young too.

ASFAIK,as Mark says, the disease is genetic and more common to certain breeds and breeding practices. Our dog developed it over a period of time,starting with taking just a tad more time to get up and it slowly deteriorated.There wasn't much the Vet could/did do in the backwaters of AP in the mid 90s.Keeping vigil and keen diagnosis is the only way I believe.Also, anyone intending to get certain breed of dogs, have the pups checked for the disorder.

Best-
Vikram

Mark & vikram, from what you mention, I gather that the problem can be diagnosed in pups, many years before they show up... should be like the Down's syndrome test in human pregnancy...

Hip dysplasia is considered to be due to genetics and poor breeding practices have seen this mushrooming in the "popular" breeds.
Generally the X rays to screen for it are taken at about 2 years of age(though about 85% accuracy is claimed even at 5-6 months), maybe a bit later for some larger breeds which mature by 3-4 years of age.
Supplements like Chondroitin sulphate and glucosamine may help in the condition though everybody is not totally convinced about this.Many also believe Ester C helps a great deal.
Dogs with hip dysplasia should avoid high impact exercise like jumping etc and they should be kept lean to avoid additional burden on their hips.
As the dog grows older the hips get stiffer and more painful and it can even be crippling. It can really be heart breaking for one to see their dog going through this.
The best breeders abroad usually do their OFA certification and grading (hips and elbows)of their Stud dogs and breeding bitches. I haven't heard of any Indian breeder do the same.
Regards,
Yaj.

As an update ... he accompanied me on my hour long morning jog... but I went real slow today. And it will be no more jumping for Simba, which I am sure he misses. Only hope he understands its for his own good. X-Ray for canine facility is pretty far from my home, but guess I will take him over this weekend.
Man, shooters sure know their dogs, and I think everyone for the valuable info I gained here

hows your Simba doing Anand?
i just found the bottle of the chewable tabs, the name of the medication that gave amazing result to my golden so thought of posting
it reads-Nutri-Vet,hip & joint.
product facts-glucosamine hydrochloride,ascorbic acid,zinc oxide,manganese gluconate,copper gluconate and some others.
made by nutri-vet 495N.dupont ave.Bose ID 83713,Made in USA.
MRP-Rs450
imported by Bharat international,pune-412207

nb-please consult your Simba's vet before administering or if needed.
incase you need this and not available in your zone,do pm me.

regards sanjiv

Hi Sanjiv...
Thanks a lot for that info. Simba is doing well indeed, but we both miss the crazy chasing and running around. He is due for a check up tomorrow with his vet, and will inquire about the tabs you mentioned. If its OK, I know someone coming down in a few weeks, and I am sure he would oblige.

Sanjiv, a little input from me:

For joint support, it's glucosamine sulphate and not hydrochloride; ascorbic acid is Vit. C that dogs are capable of producing in their own liver and any extra dosage puts the liver under strain. Still, if you are willing to use the med, also administer Liv 52 DS from Himalaya Healthcare. Also, feed him the Royal Canine Junior 31 formula (150 gms in the breakfast) for the first 7 days and taper it down slowly over the next 14 days. If possible, also get him some Chondroitin to promote cartilage hydration. And since the protein shall be more in the RC J31, also feed him one Gokshura (Tribulus Terrestris) capsule for a healthy renal function. More later.

RottLord wrote:Sanjiv, a little input from me:

For joint support, it's glucosamine sulphate and not hydrochloride; ascorbic acid is Vit. C that dogs are capable of producing in their own liver and any extra dosage puts the liver under strain. Still, if you are willing to use the med, also administer Liv 52 DS from Himalaya Healthcare. Also, feed him the Royal Canine Junior 31 formula (150 gms in the breakfast) for the first 7 days and taper it down slowly over the next 14 days. If possible, also get him some Chondroitin to promote cartilage hydration. And since the protein shall be more in the RC J31, also feed him one Gokshura (Tribulus Terrestris) capsule for a healthy renal function. More later.

thanx a ton rottlord,
will keep your input saved .
regards sanjiv

Sanjiv, in fact, my last post had a mistake; I was searching on which one was better; this is what I found out:

Glucosamine Hydrochloride vs. Sulfate (http://www.nutrasense.com/gluchclvssul.html)
There is discussion over which of the two glucosamine salts, hydrochloride or sulfate, is preferred for the treatment of osteoarthritis.
The answer is straightforward - both salts, in the pure form, deliver equally effective amounts of the desired glucosamine to joint cartilage. If there is a preference, it should be based on relative purity and economics.

Errors Regreted; I'm not a doctor but still trying to learn as much as possible. But somehow I feel it's the sulphate that's more appropriate for both hip, shoulder and elbow dysplasia. The next issue of the KCI gazette shall be on Rotties; I'm expecting some substantial news there. Would like to know what others think about the sulphate vs. hydrochlorise debate.

Regards,

Rottlord