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For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:01 am
by axp817
I enjoy Target shooting and am decidedly anti hunting. Even primitive man hunted animals for food, but he never hung up a saber toothed tiger skin to decorate his cave. If you are a trophy hunter, you are off my Christmas card list.
To continue where I left off (in the introductions and welcomes section),
I am going to express my opinion/view on hunting (for trophies, meat, or for any other reason).

About 8 or so years ago, I had the opportunity of visiting the home of a certain Maharaja (king for non--Indians) of an erstwhile province of the state of Gujarat. I won't be revealing his name so that his identity remains protected and we don't pass judgement on him without knowing all the facts.

Coming back to the story, I remember seeing a "trophy room" in his palace which was chock full of wild animal mounts - lion(s), tiger(s), bear(s), all sorts of deer, and what not.
Back then, I knew nothing about hunting, and was influenced by the lame PETA ads, I had seen in the print and film media. These ads, with celebrities in 'em, made hunting seem like a cruel, inhumane activity.
And what I saw at the Maharajah's place, was naturally, a pretty disgusting sight to me, back then.

I am not sure if the Maharajah was involved in any conservation efforts, which his hunting activities could have been a part of. If that was the case, I certainly wouldn't feel the same way, if I were to visit that place today. But since, I am not sure if the Maharajah was helping conserve wildlife and controlling the animal populations I can't really say much about it, hence to be fair, would not like to disclose the name.

Coming to hunting activities on this side of the globe, I have to say that trophy hunting is nothing to feel disgusted about because of the reasoning behind it.

All hunters in America are required to take a hunter's education course and are required by law to practice ethical hunting.

Contrary to popular belief, the hunter's education course is not just a gun safety or hunting safety course but also teaches the student a lot about wildlife conservation, its importance and necessity, and ethical hunting practices (Fair chase, etc.)

Below is a link to the hunter's education course material that I had to study for my certification.

http://homestudy.ihea.com/contents.htm

Pay close attention to the "About Hunting" and "Hunter responsibility/ethics" sections.

We do not merely kill animals, we "hunt" them.

Which is why we as true and ethical hunters don't believe in "Canned Hunting" (hunting animals in enclosures). As Wayne La Pierre very rightly says in his debate with the PETA loser - Shooting animals in enclosures is not "hunting" so people should stop referring to it as canned "hunting".

Hunting in America (and all other countries where the law allows hunting) is done for conservation purposes only. If the deer population increases in a certain area it affects the crops, and other environmental factors and something has to be done to control it. It is ridiculous to spend tax $ on birth control for animals and other ridiculous measures, and the best way to control the population is by letting the hunters do it, in the words of Ted Nugent.

Same applies to other animals such as varmints, bear, moose, elk, etc.

I hunt coyote - Coyotes are varmints, they are over abundant in these parts, and attack cattle, deer, even humans at times ( do a google search for coyote attacks on human children, and see if you don't feel like chopping a coyotes head after you see the pictures)

Coyotes are predators. They hunt other smaller animals. Hunting coyote is "hunting the hunter" which is another reason why it is so exciting (to me).

I didn't get any when I went into the woods last time, but I plan on going again and again and I know that someday I will get one.

What do I do after I get one? I don't think I would like to eat it, I could bury it, but I could also skin it and tan its pelt to adorn my walls, or my floor, or I could find someone to make me a warm hat out of it.

Someone like you who would walk into my home and see coyote pelts would probably be disgusted and stop sending me christmas cards (heh j/k) but is what I did inhumane? Certainly not - I helped the state control coyote populations, and instead of burying the coyote with its pelt, I decided to skin it and keep the pelt with me.

Not sure if you know this, but the animals that are slaughtered at slaughter houses and their meat sold in stores, have gone through more torture (since you seem to care so much about it) than the animals killed by hunters.

Animals reared for meat live in slaughter houses for weeks or even months, under questionable conditions before they are killed. Throughout their lives, they probably know that they are being raised to be killed someday. They live their lives knowing and waiting for the butcher's knife.

On the other hand, the animals in the wild are killed in their own natural habitat, they live their lives to the most (not living in misery expecting death) until the hunter gets them, also, if you have seen a single hunting show, you will know that hunters almost always go for animals that are past a certain age (see that in almost every moose, elk, buck hunting show) and have done their part in nature's cycle.

So without doubt, it is more 'ethical' to eat the meat of an animal that is hunted than that which has spent all its life in a pen. - for those who seem to care so much about animal cruelty.

just so everyone knows, i don't have anything against eating meat sold in stores either :)

Same applies to deer or any other game - I go deer hunting, find a nice buck - shoot it, in the process have a great time in the oudoors and also do my bit in contributing to wildlife conservation. After the deer is dead, I take its meat, keep some for myself, give some to friends, and maybe to the "hunters for the hungry association" to give to the needy (which by the way is a very active practice in the USA - hunters donate a lot of meat to the needy). AFter all this is done, instead of tossing the deer's head, I might as well take it to the taxidermist, and have it mounted to adorn my "palace".

I do believe that everyone has the right to an opinion, but it seems that you do not really understand hunting, and probably still believe that hunting is an animal slaughtering hobby that the rich and wealthy indulge in, for fun.

Yes, it is indeed a fun activity for all hunters - being in the outdoors, connecting with our predatorial and adventurous roots, is very exciting but it is not senseless animal slaughter as you believe.

If that were the case, we wouldn't have "hunting seasons". In New Hampshire (where I live), firearm season for deer is only about a month or so, every year. This again points to the fact that hunters are only allowed to hunt deer during the times that their populations are in over abundance.

Since the beginning of time, man has been a hunter, with time he has learned the importance of natural/wildlife resources and their conservation, with time he has also seen and understood the naturally symbiotic relationship between hunting and wildlife conservation.
It is because of hunters (hunting activities are the biggest financial supporter of conservation activities in North America, PETA doesn't do jack s**t for conservation) that so many species haven't become extinct by now.

http://homestudy.ihea.com/wildlife/10surplus.htm
http://homestudy.ihea.com/wildlife/15tools.htm
http://homestudy.ihea.com/wildlife/22pay.htm

Please take a minute to look at these links which will help you understand how hunting really helps conservation.

I don't know if it is possible to order the "Outdoor Channel" in India, but if you can, I highly recommend it.

those were my 2 cents, now I will go back to watching the show on hunting cape buffalo in Africa.

-Naren

Re: For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:34 am
by mehulkamdar
Naren,

I, too, hope that Outdoor Life and OLN shows, especially the safari shows could be shown in India. If they cannot be broadcast on TV there, the DVDs could sell for a good price. I also wish that more Indians could come to the USA and hunt a little here - every year, Wisconsin has problems killing enough deer during hunting season and they have not been able to extend the season due to arguments between gun and bow hunters. There may be similar problems in other states also. Coming here and hunting would help change perceptions very fast. It may also help influence the Indian government into conserving and reforesting land there for the future. Once there are more forests, the anti hunting arguments would evaporate quite fast.

Cheers,

Mehul

PS Did you get any coyote calling? We have a huge problem in my county because the coyotes are wiping out the foxes and hunting is strictly banned here. Would like to bag one with my 50 cal muzzleloader...

Re: For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:08 am
by Mack The Knife
Naren,

Is there a book version of the complete hunter education course? I would like to buy it along with the DVD but could not find the book for sale on IHEA's site.

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

Re: For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:21 pm
by eljefe
I am an 'honorary' NH man Naren, been given that accolade by a colleague who is a legislator and EMT from the live free or die state.
I second your post completely and believe that there is a place for commiteed conservation in India-we've had our A**holes who shot 5 lions and 500 partridge a day, just to keep their eye in!
multifaceted problems for us gunowners in India, starting from being treated like a criminal when one applies for a licence-thats most probably because we havent changed many of our major laws like IPC, Telegraphy, Official Secrets etc which were circa 1860,s post the first war of independance and the new breed of rulers continued on, to help them keep our poor sods in line!
I guess its upto this generation to pay for the sins of the fathers!
Also, I wonder if the RTI can help me find out how many gun licencees in India have a criminal background? before the anti's get that info :twisted:
As for hunting,sure, I belive that is a very atavastic instinct and how one achieves it-wheteher with slingshot or trap or firearm is dependant on the situation and available resources.
However, as many posts here show, there is a strong interest in hunting, and it needs to be nurtured and an appropriate environment created by us for this.We must translate this fervour into ground reality.
Best
Axx

Re: For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:17 pm
by mundaire
eljefe";p="3258 wrote:Also, I wonder if the RTI can help me find out how many gun licencees in India have a criminal background? before the anti's get that info :twisted:


You cannot get that info because even the government does not have that information with them! :shock: Yep! You heard me right! In the absence of a nation wide computerized database of arms license holders, no one can collect this information. AFAIK there are only a few local licensing authorities (like Delhi for instance) who have a computerized database - but then too the database is only of license holders in the jurisdiction.

When the UN talks about estimates of 40 million guns in India, they are basically making (what they claim is) an educated guess, but more likely they are talking through their ar*e! Our government DOES NOT even have nation wide figures on firearm related crime, etc.!

There are now plans afoot of getting a national database of criminal records, with fingerprint and other data of persons with a criminal records entered into it for easy matching/ searching - but AFAIK this is still not up and running as of yet.

Did someone mention the 1860's? Well, not just the laws, even the police methods and equipment seem to hark back to that era!! :evil:

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Re: For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:21 am
by axp817
Is there a book version of the complete hunter education course
Mack The Knife, unfortunately there isn't a book version you could buy that I know of, there might be other sites that do offer it though.

Were you able to buy the DVD, and have it shipped to India?


I called the NH fish and game dept. today and explained that a friend was interested in the hunter's education study material but couldn't register for the course at the moment since he lives in a different country. NOrmally you have to register for the course to get the material, which is free - they don't sell it.

I said that the friend planned to take the course when he visited the US next year and get a non resident hunting permit and the kind lady on the phone agreed to send the material. I should get it in a week or so, visiting India mid October.

Send me a PM with your home address in INdia and I will ship it to you when I am there.

The material will contain
1. Study Material- book - from IHEA
2. NH wildlife guides
3. Survival guide
4. Wildlife identification cards, NH hunting digest, etc.

Good stuff to read, even though you don't live here.

The IHEA website also has options to print the study material in case anyone else is interested in having it in print than online.

Have to run, will reply to other posts on this thread later

-N

Re: For the anti-hunting brigade

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:53 am
by Mack The Knife
Were you able to buy the DVD, and have it shipped to India?
No. I was hoping to club both purchases together to save on postage.
I said that the friend planned to take the course when he visited the US next year and get a non resident hunting permit and the kind lady on the phone agreed to send the material.


You may be relieved to hear that you did not fib. Last weekend my friends and I took three Americans fishing and they insisted we come over this November to hunt and fish. Can't do it this year but am seriously considering going over in October/November 2007.

The material will contain
1. Study Material- book - from IHEA
2. NH wildlife guides
3. Survival guide
4. Wildlife identification cards, NH hunting digest, etc.

Good stuff to read, even though you don't live here.
Thanks a ton, Naren. This is more for the kids than me - bedtime stories with a difference. :wink:

PM on it's way.

Mack The Knife