Indians For Guns

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/hunte ... ards-60491

These leopards have been declared man eaters by the forest department and hunters have been appointed to kill them.

Any IFG members in the list?

Any IFG members in the list?

i know of at least one but would rather he say it himself.

p.s. I'd rather use the words hunt/shoot the man eater.

shooter wrote:

Any IFG members in the list?

i know of at least one but would rather he say it himself.

p.s. I'd rather use the words hunt/shoot the man eater.

I think we can do one thing we can caught the leopard by apply sleeping dot and leave some where in interior jungle or keep him any zoo in India.
But we should not kill any one if we can give a chance to Kassab and Afzal Guru why not these innocent animals they have not made invasion into our world but have made the invasion into their land, so politely appealing each and every IFG ians not to kill but fight for the innocent animals please save them and fire the sleeping dot not the bullet.

God has given us a creative mind we can think ahead of many thing please use it protect and live with harmony with our wild heritage.

But in the morning news I have seen that, that leopard has been killed. Its unfortunate we should not be happy about it at least I am not happy.

The news article says:

Over the years with increased human habitation and reduced forest cover the conflict between man and animal has been on the rise.

....and what happened? We are blaming the cats. Why is the question not being raised from the other end?

abhrankash wrote: But we should not kill any one if we can give a chance to Kassab and Afzal Guru why not these innocent animals they have not made invasion into our world but have made the invasion into their land.

@abhrankash
Welcome aboard. Happy to see a fellow member here with similar line of thoughts. Though I am seriously against keeping the "accused and victim" in a Zoo, I am definitely in for anything that's not destructive. This topic has been discussed, killed and buried in the older threads. If alone people can "think" in our country!!!!!!

In my opinion: This sounds like -- Just name the leopard a "Man-eater" and kill it, legally -- I would like to know what scientific measures were applied before declaring them man-eaters. Our forest department does not even have the right way to count the number of cats, they're skilled to distinguish man-eaters from non-man-eaters? Hmm...

By the way, I know what could be a probable reply!!

My apologies shooter, it was pretty late here, I just copied and pasted the headline. Correction made.

Now - a - days, a legal leopard hunt, in India, is rare. Since legal also means with support of the official machinery, if the IFG member can share this experience, it would be great.

abhrankash, general hunting is illegal in India, I am sure none of the IFG members (and oher responsible gun owners in India) would either fire a bullet or a sleeping dot at wildlife. About Kasab and Guru, the "Hunting, Hiking, Camping, Fishing & other Fresh Air Activities" is not the right section...

srswamy, I had an occasion to visit the Pench national park in MP/Mah, and interact with the forest service, as well as conservationists. Wildlife is very shy, there really is no way to accurately establish a count. Paw prints are used to identify cats, and scientifically speaking, it is easy to establish that a human was killed by a particular cat. For a primer, read Jim Corbett. The corollary is to hunt for that particular cat, not any cat in the area.

Rahul,

full_circle wrote: Paw prints are used to identify cats

That's the exact reason for my concern on identifying a particular cat. This is an age old methodology, for your kind information.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7079840.stm

The latest figures are based on data collected using a variety of techniques from radio-collaring to camera trapping. Numbers are gathered for an area of 100sq km then extrapolated to give an estimate for a wider area.

and scientifically speaking, it is easy to establish that a human was killed by a particular cat. For a primer, read Jim Corbett. The corollary is to hunt for that particular cat, not any cat in the area.

Agreed!! I am not very sure, if you already are aware of the case where a tiger was branded man-eater and the hunters shot two others, "just by mistake" some time back.

Source: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/one-m ... ed/428263/

So, even if you brand a cat a man-eater, how accurate are our processes to track down to the specific one?

A bigger question is, what steps are being taken to reduce man-animal conflict, which results due to the loss of habitat for these creatures?

Hi Guys this destroying of Maneaters is just a way to pacify the population and a cpl of poor leopards gonna end up dead,with rewards and trophies going to the Eminent So & So and just by the way related to Mr---------,IAS,IPS,IFS,Minister you can take your pick? A leopard is the worst nighmare if turned Maneater,Carpett Saheb has written a lot about them.had a few dogs picked up by the same in H.P,the dog is gone before you know what hit him,sure enough you are gonna find a cpl of Gypsies with searchlights fitted on them,with guys looking for anything looking like a Leopard irrespective of the Age,Gender and the condition of the animal.Hope the forest deptt has put signs on the leopards MANEATERS,like they have on there own cars and Jeeps .

Srswamy, I sense the anti-hunting sentiment in you and I applaud that. To hunt or not is an individual choice. For the past few years, I've lived in UK and USA, both countries offering opportunities for legal hunts, but I chose not to. I support hunting for food and emergencies, but dont care much for hunting as a sport or business. But thats just me. In India, (thankfully or otherwise) that choise doesnt exist - hunting is illegal.

srswamy wrote: This is an age old methodology, for your kind information.

Thank you for the insight Age-old the method may be, but it works. Just like another age-old method: finger printing. Tiger paw prints (pug marks) are as distinctive as fingerprints in humans.

The latest figures are based on data collected using a variety of techniques from radio-collaring to camera trapping. Numbers are gathered for an area of 100sq km then extrapolated to give an estimate for a wider area.

I was talking about accurate counts. Extrapolation is at best an accurate guess, at worst, so much air. Having said that, cameras at waterholes for example do give a count to work with, but really, there is no way to accurately establish a count.

I am not very sure, if you already are aware of the case where a tiger was branded man-eater and the hunters shot two others, "just by mistake" some time back.

Yes, I was, and I dont defend that. A honest mistake or chance-pe-dance, whatever it might have been, the outcome was tragic.

A bigger question is, what steps are being taken to reduce man-animal conflict, which results due to the loss of habitat for these creatures?

Unless someone dreams of a Sanjay Gandhi type mass sterilisation program around national parks, human encroachment on forest land for livelihood, agriculture and habitation is difficult to contain. Nothing you or me can do about that. Mining near or in national parks is a big issue, and thankfully, the government is waking up to the problem. Another issue is poaching. Demand for animal body parts and lax, inefficient and in rare cases, corrupt protection of national parks fuels poaching. Nip the demand, the problem will disappear. What is required is increasing awareness of the much beloved aam aadmi. Point is, who will take the responsibility? Depending on the government for any and every thing is a bad idea. A change is best achieved by concerned citizens... a very good example is the effort of the Bishnoi community.

There are an estimated 3000 leopards in Uttarakhand.
Loss of habitat , hydroelectric projects , roads , encroachment , growth inpopulation, tourism has had an adverse effect on the wildlife.
Seems like yesterday when people living in Mussoorie had bears and leopards walking in the backyards. Not more than 20 years ago.
Today it's a different story. Like anywhere else in India.
This is an annual feature. Every winter (as cold weather sets in) leopards move down from the higher reaches in search of food . Domesticated animals including cattle, goats , sheep and dogs are regularly picked up. Only after the animal has made human kills is it declared a maneater.
Living in big cities and towns, it is difficult to imagine the pain a family which has lost one of it's kin to a leopard goes through. It is also difficult to imagine the fear they live in everyday till the killer is brought to book.
Leopards within protected reserves and parks are not touched . Only those which have strayed out and are a danger to humans are permitted to be hunted.
Maneaters are more clever than one can think them to be .
Traps in many cases are useless. They do help at times.
Dart guns have their own limitations . The greatest being their LIMITED RANGE.
How close would YOU like to get to a confirmed maneater .......I would like to ask my dear friends who talk about catching them, rather than shooting them. Specially when you are going after them in tough terrain (Hills) , where a lot of stalking is done on foot ; and not from the comfort of a jeep. You can be safe from a tiger or a lion on a tree. But not from a Leopard.
Who would feed the family of a young widow and her children whose husband has been killed by a maneater?
Who would pay for their upkeep of the leopards even if they were caught?
Would the quality of life of an animal confined to a cage be the same as that in the wild?
Even if you caught one and put him back in the jungle. Who can guarentee that the animal will not come back and kill more humans.
We all know that man is the slowest and easiest "animal" for a big cat. Once the Big Cat knows it he would prefer to feast on him, rather than go for swifter and faster animals where the probability of a kill is less. EASY FOOD.
I am a nature lover and a wildlifer. Yet , when it comes to maneaters . I do believe . They should be terminated.


And Yes. The maneaters are subsequently burnt and destroyed.
No Trophies are made out of them and handed over to IAS, IPS officers and Ministers like some members have assumed.No financial rewards are given either.

I have hope for the leopard. It's a beautiful and a versatile animal. More versatile than any other big cat on this planet.

Doc Saab is right. It is very easy to fantasize about catching a maneater with tranq darts but once u go stalking a leopard on foot the game is very different. The leopard is one of the most elusive cats and not to mention one of the best stalkers. So it is very easy that the hunter may actually be stalked by the leopard and this has happened on many occasions with people stalking leopards.The leopard also charges and attacks very silently and ferociously hence is would be unsafe and irresponsible to suggest the hunter not shoot him.
It would be nice if they could be caught....and put in zoos however this as its limitations.
it is a pity but the truth that the animal once shot is burned and no trophies made out of em....

Some very interesting/educative points touched by all.

Swamijee, you do make a few pertinent points. It is undeniable that Man-Animal conflict in our country is largely due to human encroachment into wilderness.Yes, most of the issues(corruption,bureaucracy,malpractices,conservation etc,) you make need to be addressed.

Meanwhile, what would you like the officials to do with the man eater?

I can only speak for my self. I do not have an itch to kill a man-eater at any cost.If someone could dart them and move to a zoo,I do think that's the best option. I do think that that option should be well explored.

Incidentally, these gentlemen were trying to dart the Tigress that strayed into paddy fields.

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Rehabilitating a confirmed man-eater? How? What guarantee one can provide that the animal would not kill people again?

BTW, could you spare us the 'I know what's coming' type of replies? Many of us here may support hunting.That does not make us all blood thirsty killers who wish to destroy animals for pleasure all the time.Almost all of us share a passion for conservation and wildlife.We may differ i our view in how we manage it.So what? We can have a debate at least.

Slightly OT: This question is aimed at everyone. How would you feel if a man-eating animal kills one of your near and dear? I am not questioning the human contribution to these situations nor am I questioning the methods used to deal with them.I would just like to know your thoughts or what you would do.

I may reason a lot.But, I am not sure if I would not want to destroy the animal.

Best-
Vikram

full_circle wrote:My apologies shooter, it was pretty late here, I just copied and pasted the headline. Correction made.

Now - a - days, a legal leopard hunt, in India, is rare. Since legal also means with support of the official machinery, if the IFG member can share this experience, it would be great.

abhrankash, general hunting is illegal in India, I am sure none of the IFG members (and oher responsible gun owners in India) would either fire a bullet or a sleeping dot at wildlife. About Kasab and Guru, the "Hunting, Hiking, Camping, Fishing & other Fresh Air Activities" is not the right section...

srswamy, I had an occasion to visit the Pench national park in MP/Mah, and interact with the forest service, as well as conservationists. Wildlife is very shy, there really is no way to accurately establish a count. Paw prints are used to identify cats, and scientifically speaking, it is easy to establish that a human was killed by a particular cat. For a primer, read Jim Corbett. The corollary is to hunt for that particular cat, not any cat in the area.

Dear sir,
If you go through my version,what I want to say is that if we can allow some terrifying subjects to defend themselves and our govt.provide them with a lawyer so why we can't give these wild animal a chance? or make some other provision for them.

@Chief -- thanks a lot for sharing some first hand information. I do empathize with the people who are first order victims for incidents. At the same time, I'm curious to know, what other action plan (apart from termination) has been planned in the area to minimize/nullify/evade the man-animal conflict in the area? This being a seasonal happening, should have provoked thoughts in this line.

My question is one level above -- why let the conflict happen? From my limited knowledge, what I can think of, with the information provided by you as a basis:

1. Plan for a radio collar or a radio chip for many leopards (considering all to be impossible). This could be done in the areas which are prone to such incidents. During the season, track the movements of the cats and alert the prospective victims. This isn't something new -- many of us must be knowing "Living with Lions"

Easily said than done, agreed, but it applies to all major problems. If India can dream of solving Kashmir issue, I think the wild life lovers can dream to do this.

prashantsingh wrote: Dart guns have their own limitations . The greatest being their LIMITED RANGE.
How close would YOU like to get to a confirmed maneater .......I would like to ask my dear friends who talk about catching them, rather than shooting them.

Out of ignorance, can't powerful dart guns be made? I understand using a chopper to chase a leopard in a hill is next to impossible. However, there could be some alternative. Have we (as in the forest department, hunters, wild life organizations, the non-arm-chair conservationists who know more about the wilderness have done a lot of real ground work) tried any other method to tranquilize the endangered species? At least to confirm whether this is the same cat which was branded man-eater?

vikram wrote: Swamijee, you do make a few pertinent points. It is undeniable that Man-Animal conflict in our country is largely due to human encroachment into wilderness.Yes, most of the issues(corruption,bureaucracy,malpractices,conservation etc,) you make need to be addressed.

Vikramjee, thanks for the recognition and thanks for understanding what I am trying to point out.

vikram wrote: Meanwhile, what would you like the officials to do with the man eater?

Well, my point is here -- your "Meanwhile" has already been a long while! How long are we going to take to develop an approach to "really" address the matter? Leave alone the man-eater.

The trend looks like this....
More loss of habitat --> More man-animal conflicts --> More man-eaters --> More terminations

It is not only for the benefit of the leopards that are left out, which are still not man-eaters, but also for the benefit of the man who gets eaten. We need a more efficient, sustainable approach in managing this problem. If not, we will force the rest of the "good" leopards to become man-eater and in return we will be forced to terminate them.

As Vikram says -- Almost all of us share a passion for conservation and wildlife. We may differ in our view in how we manage it. Hence, I have expressed my view! I still feel, it is good to have a constructive approach.

The first line contributors could be the most knowledgeable people here.

vikram wrote: BTW, could you spare us the 'I know what's coming' type of replies?

Well, of course I can, if you aren't very comfortable with it....however, I alone can not be held responsible for it!! If alone people would have spared me from comparing killing of an animal in a slaughterhouse to plucking a carrot, and few more instances..........

Most of us know that in India......
Every thing boils down to one problem.

Our ever increasing human population.
Till we can control that , nothing is going to work.

BTW i thought i might take this chance to post another (somewhat related) post that i had made some time ago:

http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic ... 18&t=10537


Each example in it is related to man animal conflict.