Hunting Abroad

[hvj1]

In the years since Independence, we have let our wildlife and our forests deteriorate to that point where they are today. We can't blame anyone but ourselves for that.

Therefore its time that we in India, whether pro or anti hunting, sink our differences and think what we should do and where we can possibly pitch in to make a difference, however small.

[xl_target]

MUCH HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT THE WHITE TAIL Conservation in U.S.A.
May I please ask my dear American friends about the Conservation efforts regarding the Wolf and the Bison which once roamed the length and breath of their beautiful continent.
You guys live in Developed Nations . India is way way behind.

As far as bison go:
http://ed.fnal.gov/entry_exhibits/bison/endangered.html

In the 1800's hunting, changes in land use and government policies brought the bison near to extinction. In the early 1800's the bison populationnumbered in the tens of millions. By the end of that century there were fewer than 1,000 left. However, in recent years interest in raising bison has grown among breeders, and today there are about 150,000 in North America. They are no longer endangered.

As far as the wolf population goes, there are conflicting numbers issued by people for and against the wolf. In Minnesota, we have large numbers. Other, states have fewer. I am not directly impacted by wolf predation so I don't really take the side of those who consider them pests but I can see their point of view. I have hunted in Northern Minnesota where during pre-season scouting, i have seen signs of large herds. However, during that hunting season, there wasn't a sign of any deer in the area. Following a fresh snowfall, the night before opening morning, I combed those woods extensively and saw no fresh deer tracks, just wolf tracks. The deer apparently moved on. Since deer are wolves natural prey, I didn't hold my empty tag against them. If we lose the wolf, we as humans, will be the poorer for it. From all the signs though, it seems that the wolf population is on the way to a comeback.

-- Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:04 am --

In the years since Independence, we have let our wildlife and our forests deteriorate to that point where they are today. We can't blame anyone but ourselves for that.

Therefore its time that we in India, whether pro or anti hunting, sink our differences and think what we should do and where we can possibly pitch in to make a difference, however small.

Absolutley hvj1,
We must all be conservationists, whether we are hunters or not.

[shooter]

The bison history has always fascinated me. From the wanton slaughter into millions. and now the re-emergence. shows what wonders can happen if man understands nature and wrks with it.

I was reading there were efforts to clone passenger pegions using their dna from old preserved specimens.

I hope to see the day the passenger pegion makes a comeback.

Hunter is perhaps a bigger naturalist than an armchair conservationist.

[prashantsingh]

I have heard a lot about stags being "tough and stringy" while does being "better eating". Yet I have never met one Shikari who could tell the "Sex" of the animal once the venison was cooked and ready at the table. If someone really wishes to have "tender" meat he should (in such a case) "HUNT" (if I may call it) only fawns. The meat would surely be "better" to eat than that of a doe or a stag.
sa_ali has mentioned an incident where his grandfather shot a doe and the "meat was hard to cook".
The quality of meat depends more on the species and the age(as mentioned earlier).
Taking the "unwritten ethics" a step forward.
There was one big game hunter in my extended family who believed in hunting "game" only in those jungles which had the apex predator (the Tiger) in it. The reason he gave and strongly believed in till he died (which many on IFG will find rather STUPID) was simple. "A forest without the Tiger is like a body without it's spirit ". The animals in the jungle (with tigers) are always alert and have sharper senses than those found elsewhere.........Thereby making the "game" more challenging.
With due regards to all the senior members of IFG, I would like to clarify that when I talk about the "ethics" of hunting I talk about the "ethics" (to be more specific) of a "TROPHY HUNTER" .

P.S. : and before I forget , this trophy hunter
also happened to eat the meat of the animal
he had shot (wherever applicable).

[hvj1]

"A forest without the Tiger is like a body without it's spirit ". The animals in the jungle (with tigers) are always alert and have sharper senses than those found elsewhere.........Thereby making the "game" more challenging.

Interesting line of thought.

[shooter]

I have heard a lot about stags being "tough and stringy" while does being "better eating". Yet I have never met one Shikari who could tell the "Sex" of the animal once the venison was cooked and ready at the table.

Bhai is duniya mein har sher par sava sher hai. There are people who can tell the number of teeth in the mouth of the goat after eating the meat. And this is not an exaggeration.
On the other hand there are people who cant tell the difference between species.
Another point. In india majority of the goats eaten are "khassi" or castrated and that too young ones in whom testosterone isnt much more than a female. try eating a barbara bakra or a male uncastrated adult male bakra.

When you say size matters in taste you are right, but do remember that a male will be bigger than a female.

Going OT but one of the things that leads to not being able to tell the difference is the cooking style. In india no mattere where we come from there is a common style of cooking i.e. marinade (optional but more common in game meat), bhuno in masala then pressure cook. even if not pressure cook then cook in degchi for hours. Ek baar to haathi will also go soft. We taste the masala more than the meat.

In the west, the concepts are complete opposite, hanging is good. Roasting/grilling is common. the meat (esp game and always venison)is never well done. Read any cookbook, when 'cooked' the steak should be pink in the middle. when u cut it, it should be 'juicy' . Maybe in india we will call it blood still flowing out.

check this out:



can you ever imagine cooking an red meat in under 10 minutes in india even if you use a pressure cooker? Remember its an inch thick.

I went to a restaurant a few years ago and ordered venison-well done (achhi tarah pakana). the owner came and said the cook wouldnt do it as it would spoil the taste.

In india we miss an important step as we never notice it.

Try this next time when you buy meat, feel it in ur fingers. its soft right?
when you cook it, check it when half done. Doesnt matter if ure cooking in pressure cooker or degchi.
It will be hard ; harder than when it was raw. then when we cook more, it gets really soft.
The meat gets hard first and then soft eventually.

Here they eat it even before it gets hard the first time. It is really soft and very close to texture/consistancy to the original. we in india never notice meat at this stage.
Another thing as u are aware is that people put little masala so the taste is of the meat itself. not the masala. So here 'stringyness' plays more important part.

You are right in saying the following are important in "toughness"

1 species
2 size/age
3 sex

in that order.

So other factors remaining the same, a female will be softer than a male.

I dont want to comment on sa alis grandfather. it was a long time ago and one off. here thousands of deer; stags/does and hinds are eaten every year.

And yes a hinds meat is the softest thats why in india a younger bakra is preferred.

P.s. : i am not trying to criticise indian cooking. it is one of the most popular cuisines in the world and i too can cook a couple of dishes indian style. I love it. I was just highlighting some differences between the styles and hence the interpretations.

[mahboob]

there's an interesting view in islam that Allah made all worldly creations for man and put "barkat" in whatever the righteous and abideing eats because it is he who feeds all the creations of the living world to the extent that a worm burried in a stone also gets his food there . even minute bacteria survive but when people stop feeding on what he gave the feast is taken back by the almighty . like chicken or goat that is killed daily remains in sufficient numbers but a deer that is not being killed for food or also like a tiger or other animals that are not killed for food are vanishing . if shikaar was allowed the people who hunted would hav taken conservation steps to keep sufficient numbers always. this i was told by a very old man . but frankly speaking the trade of animal hyde has been the reason for all this .ponds are poisoned and animals get killed this is far more brutal than hunting. and all forest people hav also added to this as they are all involved in fascilitating timber mafia .only the roadside trees are left rest is cut from inside the dense part causing damage to wildlife habitat intensely. in a currupt country like ours its useless to rely on them south africa model is the only solution rear wildlife and open for hunt only in seasons

[DAN]

there's an interesting view in islam that Allah made all worldly creations for man and put "barkat" in whatever the righteous and abideing eats because it is he who feeds all the creations of the living world to the extent that a worm burried in a stone also gets his food there . even minute bacteria survive but when people stop feeding on what he gave the feast is taken back by the almighty . like chicken or goat that is killed daily remains in sufficient numbers but a deer that is not being killed for food or also like a tiger or other animals that are not killed for food are vanishing . if shikaar was allowed the people who hunted would hav taken conservation steps to keep sufficient numbers always. this i was told by a very old man . but frankly speaking the trade of animal hyde has been the reason for all this .ponds are poisoned and animals get killed this is far more brutal than hunting. and all forest people hav also added to this as they are all involved in fascilitating timber mafia .only the roadside trees are left rest is cut from inside the dense part causing damage to wildlife habitat intensely. in a currupt country like ours its useless to rely on them south africa model is the only solution rear wildlife and open for hunt only in seasons

Correct me if I'm wrong But isn't it haraam or don't you get cursed by animals which you hunt for pleasure and not for food?

[prashantsingh]

Dear Dan,
I was waiting all these days for someone to reply to your question but since no one has come up yet I shall explain from whatever I have gathered from some of my muslim friends. I am not very sure but what I know is that the animal they eat is "halal" if they drain out the blood from it's system. SO even if one is hunting the animal for "pleasure" if one has managed to "zubaan" it , then it is legitamate for consumption.
I was out trout fishing once with a muslim friend and told him that the fish we had caught were not "halal" . To this he gave a very interesting reply. He said that the fish can be consumed anyways since they are already "halal". How ? I questioned......and his reply was quite interesting. He said that the troat of the fish has already been slit by the almighty Allah (pointing to the Gills).
I am sure our muslim friends on I.F.G. will be able to elaborate on this one.

[nagarifle]

I have heard a lot about stags being "tough and stringy" while does being "better eating". Yet I have never met one Shikari who could tell the "Sex" of the animal once the venison was cooked and ready at the table.

people here say that male pig meat smells and thus one is able to tell if the pork is male or femail. i for one can not tell. unless seen the carcase.

[jonahpach]

I have heard a lot about stags being "tough and stringy" while does being "better eating". Yet I have never met one Shikari who could tell the "Sex" of the animal once the venison was cooked and ready at the table.

people here say that male pig meat smells and thus one is able to tell if the pork is male or femail. i for one can not tell. unless seen the carcase.

Nags, I have always wondered about this too! Too many times we have seen in the movies wild hogs, stags etc.. being hunted and getting cooked and eaten. Male animals have a distinctive strong odour which prevails even after heavy cooking. I guess this must be why meat masala was invented in India. Even the common male goat meat has a very strong odour and is impossible to consume if not cooked properly with a lot of spices. Here in Mizoram all animals bred for human consumption are castrated at 2-3 months. I guess this is being done here because we have a simplistic cooking method of just boiling or steaming..

Jonah

[nagarifle]

Here in Mizoram all animals bred for human consumption are castrated at 2-3 months. I guess this is being done here because we have a simplistic cooking method of just boiling or steaming..Jonah

it must be a miracle , you castrate them at 2-3months, so how do they breed? if the all the males are castrated?

[jonahpach]

One single male can do the job for a whole piggery! All the rest go chop chop..

Jonah

[shooter]

castrating animals for better flavour is a very old tradition.

in bakras its called "khassi". khassi tastes much better. thats why one cant tell the difference between a "male" (khassi) or a female.

the actual males (not khassi) have the odour which will need huge volumes of garlic, mirch and bhunao till musclea ache to get rid of.

[Yaj]

Castrating of males being bred for meat is common practise in the goat business (actually the meat industry in general),they are called wethers.This makes them put on weight faster,behave more docile and taste better.
Another important point is proper handling of meat, meat which is not handled properly while dressing/butchering it will pick up odours which spoil the flavour. This usually neglected here in India.
Regards,
Yaj.