Hunting Abroad

[kanwar76]

IFG has been pro-hunting since its start so stop posting your happiness on death of hunters. No body like it here.

Please speak for yourself, desist from pompous statements and taking on the role of spokesman for the entire IFG community, the mods are doing an excellent job.
Nothing more matures the mind than the ability to listen to a contrary viewpoint. I have and am constantly learning by reading what the experts have to say about conservation of wildlife abroad and lament the lack of it in India. Having said that, kindly direct me to the white paper you mention.
I profer my hand to you and let us agree to disagree, at the same time have respect for each others view point. Like Mahatma Gandhi said, " An eye for an eye, will only make the whole world blind".

I have been on IFG long enough to know what it stands for. IFG is made by its members not by mods, so stop bringing mods in.

Talking about mature minds and ability to listen to contrary viewpoint, does "laughing" on dead falls into that category?

I am not having any personal axe to grind with you, it’s just that your comments were over the top. Hope you read and understand article posted by Vikram to know what INDIA is loosing by not allowing hunting.

-Inder

[prashantsingh]

LET THERE BE MORE LIGHT THAN FIRE. Let everyone express what they have to. After all India is a free nation. Kanwar can you please look for the definition of "Culling".

-- Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:37 pm --

then yesterday, I saw a herd of bison, charging a pride of tigers, trampling the cubs into the grass. I didnt enjoy the cubs being trampled, but I enjoyed the tables being

Bison : Found in North America
Tiger: Is a solitary animal. If you see two they are mating (which would be for 3 to 4 days). If you a see a group of 3 to 4 they are a mother with her cubs.
Most probably you saw Buffalo chasing a pride of lions. In the wild it is the old Darwin's law "Survival of the fittest".

[kanwar76]

Prashant you can click some lilnks here

http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&so ... at+is+cull

-Inder

[prashantsingh]

Dear XL_target,
"Culling is the process of removing animals from a group based on specific criteria. This is done in order to either reinforce certain desirable characteristics or to remove certain undesirable characteristics from the group".
Nowhere in this definition does the word "Hunting" come. So we should not confuse "Culling" with "hunting".
Hunting is still considered as a "Game". Culling isn't.
For the simple reason that in Hunting you go by the rules (unwritten ethics) just like you go by the rules when you play any other "game".

[Vikram]

Gentleman,

If I may, it really helps to keep discussions to issues we are debating instead of getting personal and discussing each other.While fire and brimstone is expected when discussing something that's controversial and we are passionate about, it is all the more important to keep discussion impersonal.If one thinks one cannot,one should take some gap and come back when tempers cool down.If this continues, the thread gets locked which will be unfortunate.

As Inder says,no moderator is above the rules and does not enjoy a right to shove unacceptable opinions down others' throats.

Hopefully, we will get on with the discussion.Bring them on folks.

Best-
Vikram

[shooter]

I seem to be missing out on the shikar debate. it reminds me of many earlier ifg posts and more recently with prashant where , believe me He was "less" of a pro hunting and yours truly was super pro hunting as usual.

"ethics is defferent for everyone"

well said prashant.

this sums not just hunting but things ingeneral especially our actions and outlooks.

We all do things knowing they are 'right'. i mean we tell ourselves and believe they are right. we justify them. Very rerely do we do stuff 100% convinced it is wrong. be it a robber, corrupt policewalla, dacoit, terrorist etc. everyone likes to think of a justification.

Now this ethics business can be different to scientific proof etc.

HVJ bhai. i have never hidden my respect for you but do u sincerely believe all the meat u eat is like that of that jolly old goat? Please visit any slaughter house. wonder how much meat uve eaten has been commercially procured.

Inder bhai, we have been more in touch recently and know that a good majority of people are hypocrites in some way whether it is hunting/non vegetarians or in other walks. If someone doesnt like hunting then so be it. good for them. I want to convert the whole of ifg no no no the whole world into non hunters. seriously i mean it.

hvj bhai. i agree with you, please convert as many people as possible to anti hunters.
My earlier posts, the pro hunting ones were a mistake. if i havent been able to convince anyone, i dont need to write anything else. That was all in jawani ka josh; thinking using my brain, now i am joining the brigade of anti hunters/anti shooters.

LONG LIVE ANTI HUNTERS!! LONG LIVE NON SHOOTERS!!

-- 21 Jan 2010, 21:10 --



for hvj 1 another video where the prey "wins" over the hunter

[hvj1]

Tiger: Is a solitary animal. If you see two they are mating (which would be for 3 to 4 days). If you a see a group of 3 to 4 they are a mother with her cubs.
Most probably you saw Buffalo chasing a pride of lions.
You are absolutely , it was a slip of the finger. Also shows, that you are pretty sharp.

-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:50 am --

but do u sincerely believe all the meat u eat is like that of that jolly old goat

Shooterbhai, the beauty of a place like ahmednagar, is that you can choose the animal while it is alive and on the hoof. A few of my friends here actually go to great lengths to buy just the right meat for a particular dish- biryani, nargisi mutton, pasadas,koftas, You are welcome anytime to sample it.My humble abode is yours!

[Sakobav]

hvj1

Thats Rs 900 Crore number and all this discussion is continuation from a previous such posts we had..I clipped the news item from The Tribune which eluded to this number and as Inder pointed out this journo's got it from Pabla's seminal study..I guess you are in minority as far hunting is concerned nothing wrong about it but the empirical info points at Hunting as the best way of conserving and funding wild life. Rest as eljefe pointed out mother nature has her own ways of bringing in balance when virus jump from animals to humans mutate into HIV, H1N1 and we are going to see more of such outbreaks as humans get deeper into their shrinking habitat and live in close proximity.

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 2&start=30
Check this report so poachers earned Rs 900 Crores in last 10 years ....couldnt the govt earned the same amount or near abouts by simply licensing and auctioning permits..Rather than gifting these animals away to poachers and black market!
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/200505 ... /main1.htm

From a peak population of 4,334 tigers in the wild in 1989, it is now estimated to have dropped to 3,500.

In Project Tiger reserves, which harbour 50 per cent of the tiger population, the figure is put at 1,600.

In the CBI report on Sariska tiger reserve between 1995 and 2003, there were 24-28 tigers. In 2004, the number of tigers was between 16 and 18. Since September 2004, no tiger has been sighted. It is now extinct.

Since 1995, the number of tigers killed is estimated to be 1,500 and the poachers have earned over Rs 900 crore by selling tiger skin and other parts in the past 10 years.

[xl_target]

So moral of the story? - My hypocrisiasis is incurable, I have got used to it.
Trouble is how long you guys are going to get used to me

Don't worry, hvj1. We're glad you're here to share your experience and expertise.
Maybe we'll convert you to our way of thinking some day.

I for one am more than willing to accept you as you are, "hypocrisiasis" and all.

[hvj1]

Dear Prashant

Hunting is a "Game".
There are no "specific" rules for Shikar. A hunter makes his own rules and abides by them. These are considered as the ETHICS. Now ethics can vary from individual to individual.

From this point on, let us imagine, that both of us are walking through the bush, You with your rifle, me with a camera,let us see how far I can walk with you OK?

The basic rule I imbibed from my elders was "Never shoot a female". I know in culling you shoot females and fawns. But I (with a capital I) can not accept it. I feel it is unethical.

I am with you

In "culling" they also use SILENCER guns so that the herd is not disturbed and before you realise it half the animals are dead. Etically it may be acceptable to some but to me it is NOT.

I am with you

In the US you can shoot an animal with an automatic rifle but I would always use a bolt action. Wouldnt the automatic rifle and its spray of bullets get the animal anyway. Etically this is unacceptable to me.

Still sticking close, mate

I would rather walk and trak an animal and then go for the biggest head. There would surely be more "fun" (if some animal lowers would excuse me) in it and satisfaction after I got it.

No problem, here, I still do it from time to time, though my tracking skills are not like haiwatha, at the end of the journey I would probably have fun, by taking a damn good SHOT , (photograph) probably, silhouetted against the morning or setting sun.

I would rather persue an injured animal and finish it rather than firing at 10 , getting 5 and injuring 5 others to die in the bush.

Right behind you mate, right behind you.

I would rather spare a bigger single male with his harem ( so that I do not disturb the balance within the herd) and go for one which is slightly smaller in a bachelor herd.

I AM NOT AT ALL IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU HERE MATE, I rather take my photo of the harem and call it a day, head for the beer, look how much we are sweating? . AUR KITNA DUR CHALAYEGA YAAR?
Best Regards

-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:16 pm --

From a peak population of 4,334 tigers in the wild in 1989, it is now estimated to have dropped to 3,500.

In Project Tiger reserves, which harbour 50 per cent of the tiger population, the figure is put at 1,600.

In the CBI report on Sariska tiger reserve between 1995 and 2003, there were 24-28 tigers. In 2004, the number of tigers was between 16 and 18. Since September 2004, no tiger has been sighted. It is now extinct.

Since 1995, the number of tigers killed is estimated to be 1,500 and the poachers have earned over Rs 900 crore by selling tiger skin and other parts in the past 10 years.

Last week, the central govt. has announced a new Tiger Reserve, right in my backyard- This is the Chandoli forest which connects to the Koyna backwaters. So, promptly, I have scouted a piece of land- 8 acres, which has an incredibly scenic view, I will post photographs when I acquire the same. It is situated at a high altitude, on the east, you see a dam in the distance The Kanher damn and its backwater, on the west, you see the backwaters of the Koyna. I hope to start a forest resort and also the HQ for my NGO operations for the preservation of tigers. This will be in the sunset of my life, where I will retreat gradually from the commercial world, follow the spiritual path under the guidance of my GURU.
Tomorrow I leave for Satara, to negotiate the price with the owner.
Regards

[shooter]

a sincere request to all hunting supporters to change their views please dont kill animals. please lets also stop shooting.

[prashantsingh]

Interesting point Dear Shooter.If we stop shooting then why are we all here (I.F.G.) and why did "man" create guns in the first place.

[Sakobav]

hvj1

Thats great news and glad you are buyinng the land. You said dam see if they allow fishing. Good luck shooting pictures...post some of your neck of woods
Best

[Oggie]

This thread has all the makings of a Blockbuster ! Thought it might be a good time to dip me teeny toe in for the moment. I live in New Zealand and Hunting is my passion. I am lucky enough to live in a country that has perhaps one of the highest firearms ownership ratio in the world. We have about 4 Million inhabitants and about a million firearm licences in the country. Hunting is a part of Kiwi culture and is an integral part of our lives. There are designated Recreational Hunting zones where any citizen who practices safe hunting can go and hunt if they have a firearms licence and a hunting permit for that specific area. The game available ranges from Wild Boar to Sambhar deer. Yes we practice sustainable hunting. It is my firm belief that Hunters protect the ecosystem and fauna far more than any other group. Here is how.
Just last week I headed off to a hunting block about 6 hours out of Auckland. We saw and were within shooting range of more deer than we could count. Yet we shot NONE. Why ? It was fawning season. We stalked the deer to practice our skills but shot none. This may sound odd but we really enjoyed watching the deer in their habitat without shooting one. This is not the first time we have taken a rain cheque on the actual act of shooting an animal. Then there have been times we have killed an animal too. The ethics of the sport are what you make them to be. Mine are as follows
Practice safe firearm usage
Always use a high caliber rifle to ensure 1 shot kills
Do not shoot a doe in fawning season
If you shoot and wound an animal, retrieve it and ensure it does not suffer.
Last but not the lease - hunting is an instinctive sport. Not everyone is a hunter. Be nice to those who do not understand the rationale. They have a right to an opinion as much as we do.

By the way -- I run a very small hobby based hunting safari operation in NZ - its is not my day job so if any of you are interested let me know and we'll jack up a trip ! I dont charge on a professional safari basis so dont expect that kind of treatment either !

Cheers,

Oggie

[hvj1]

Hey Oggie,
Good to hear from you, welcome aboard to this thread. Yesterday XL_Target provided me so much information about the way they shoot deer, I was very impressed and quite admired the details of the entire day. I request XL to post it here for the benefit of all. So reading about your experience in the light of XL's write was quite interesting.
Please do provide more details about your NZ hobby safari ops, preferrably with a few photgraphs.
Regards

-- Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:44 am --

Vikram wrote:"hvj1"]kindly direct me to the white paper you mention.

Ask,Ye shall be given.LOL.

Hi Vikram,
Thanks for directing me to the white paper. I have downloaded it and am reading it carefully.
Regards