This hunting is disgusting

[Sakobav]

Folks

Few days ago I was browsing a magazine and it had an article by Mcyintire or someone by that name titled roughly " Where have all the tigers gone.." jist was India's and Kenya's abysmal track record of maintaining wild life and their habitat after banning hunting. In comparison were the success stories of S Africa, Botswana and other countries which issue hunting licenses and the monies trickle down to local population and who in turn have an incentive and stake in the process. He chided India probably has less number of tigers than 1971 when Project Tiger started.

This video is an aberration and sickening thing to watch. Hunters world wide follow certain rules and principle and those cannot be compared with sadism and perverseness depicted in this video. Rest Shooter, Vikram and others summarized pretty good. Yaj's example was the best

BTW I still cant get into Hunter Ed class....

Cheers

[hvj1]

Folks

Few days ago I was browsing a magazine and it had an article by Mcyintire or someone by that name titled roughly " Where have all the tigers gone.." jist was India's and Kenya's abysmal track record of maintaining wild life and their habitat after banning hunting. In comparison were the success stories of S Africa, Botswana and other countries which issue hunting licenses and the monies trickle down to local population and who in turn have an incentive and stake in the process. He chided India probably has less number of tigers than 1971 when Project Tiger started.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Billy Arjan Singh a prolific hunter turned conservationist dedicated himself to the project. Now here is a suggestion and I will back it up with some facts;
Quite recently, our Honorable PM took some initiative in conducting an inquiry into the dwindling population of tigers in this country (Sariska, if I am not mistaken). Even after all the brouhaha, tigers are still going missing!The Forest Dept. claim that are under manned, and without the resources to tackle the menace of poaching. Fine, so what is the alternative? Here is one:
In the mid 80's, the Mechanised Infantry Regimental Centre (MIRC) at Ahmednagar took over more than a couple of hundred acres of wasteland, bordering their center.The objective was to conserve the Blackbuck population.Today, the Blackbuck population has multiplied to several thousands and they have spilled over into the countryside. The initial steps taken were roughly as follows;
1. Declared the area as MIRC Green
2. Mounted Watch Tower/observation posts, equipped them with wireless.
3. Created a deterrent 'presence' by using the borders of the sanctuary/GREENs for night driving and night marches coupled with day time vehicle driving practice area.
4. Created bunds, ditches, artificial ponds and now a small water catchment lake.
5. Monitored all those civillians going in and out of the only route through the GREENs.
Some time ago, some would be poachers, drove into the GREENs at night, by the time they had reached the exit point, theirway was barred by an army jeep full off army personnel in fatigues. The poachers s**t b***ks! These buggers were then handed over to the Police and Forest Dept. Since then no adventurers with bad case of diarrhea.
So, the moral of the story is, why not hand over at least a couple fo existing sanctuaries to the Army, the advantages are manifold;
1. The question of manpower can be solved, as the army can patrol the sanctuary night and day as part of their 'exercises'.
2. Without any doubts, Army Officers have higher moral standards than those who are presently managing the show, otherwise how do you explain the continous losses. The Forest guards are hand in glove with the poachers themselves!
3. A strong Army presence is a serious deterrent to not only poaching, but also encroachers and would be naxals.
Now we at IFG/GFI can present a proposal to one of our MPs who could raise the subject in Parliament or an appropriate forum.
Give it a thought, I am willing to go over to MIRC and collect all the hard facts and prepared to make the draft proposal. It will only take me a couple of days. Anybody to support me out there? By support I mean, ready to take the proposal (representing entire IFG not a single individual) and hand it over to a known and sympathetic MP?This could also give IFG/GFI, very good 'visibility'.

-- Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:39 am --

Dear Vikram,
Yes we can all co-exist side by side. Regarding the sepia photographs, I will have to go to Gwalior for those. When I do, I promise to email them to you but not post them on this forum. IFG is also fortunate to have you as one of our moderators.
Regards

[Sakobav]

hvj1

Your example at Babina is a good one and underlines exactly whats required for providing more 'teeth' for strict enforcement to the forest officers.

There are similar examples in US especially eastern coast where Deer population has exploded and is a nuisance and hunting would restore some kind of balance ( some communities dont allow it ) . Even our neighbor Pakistan has done a better job of balancing hunting and wild life. Few years ago they sold a hunting permit for $50K for hunting either Goral or Marco Polo sheep.

Similarly if govt in India sells licenses thats the money which will go directly to the local bodies. Hypothetically speaking these Tigers were shot by poachers what if India had an international sale or bid for hunting license? take a guess on the capital that would have infused into the sanctuary quite bit more than what govt can spare or its budget. I know I am beating a dead horse but whats the harm in thinking out of the box , Indians have failed miserably and neither do they have the finances for such projects. It will be a boost to tourism also.

One can look up stats on the Rhino population and other animals in Africa where hunting is allowed.

Incidentally I am quite familiar with that area my father did quite a bit of his service in Bhind morena, Babina, Bina, Shivpuri and Gwalior. Including Chandarpur or Chanda near Nagpur and know the damage that paper Ballarshah mill created by decimating the forest there. Per my father it was quite common to see Tigers on the mill to Chanda road and same was true about Shivpuri. . Know some stories of other 'outlaws in Bhind Morena area the dacoits but thats OT.

best

[hvj1]

Ngrewal,
Err, the MIRC GREENs is at Ahmednagar, is there a similar project at Babina, if it is so, it will be even more easier for me to get data as we have several regiments posted in and around that area.
BR

[Sakobav]

hvj1

My bad I confused Babina with Ahmednagar arent both Armored related places....No I am not aware of any such program in Babina..But maybe Armed forces are involved in such endeavors.

Cheers

[kanwar76]

So now Army have to man our forests also

[hvj1]

Ngrewal,
Yes, both very much armoured.
Kanwar76
Can you suggest a workable alternative?

[shooter]

hey yaj i hope your booty in the fifth continent antarctica wasnt a penguin.
U've made no bones about being an animal lover.

It was a curvaceous Russian scientist if you must know So being a gun lover am I to take it that you do the unmentionable with them

I just thought that it was "I'm so sensitive" "Holier than thou" time, so I thought I would share some of the pearls of wisdom that I have earned by the sweat of my brow
But i guess you missed the sarcasm.
Regards,
Yaj.

hey yaj the sarcasm wasnt missed. my comment was a compliment yo uour wit; sharp as always.

dear hvj. awaiting your pics.

[Yaj]

hey yaj the sarcasm wasnt missed. my comment was a compliment yo uour wit; sharp as always.

Phew! I am glad Shooter
I was beginning to think my post was taken literally by everybody.
Had a friend or two calling up to know how they can get in on to the action !
I guess I should have saved my breath and just said "Sau choohe kha ke billi haj ko chali" and clarified that my post was in support of legal hunting.
Regards,
Yaj.

[hvj1]

Dear Shooter,
Eventually you will get them, Gwalior is about 8 hours away,I will have to visit it personally, then will email them to you as promised. But I am afraid, you will get them- in the fullness of time.
Regards

[Matchlock71]

Even our neighbor Pakistan has done a better job of balancing hunting and wild life. Few years ago they sold a hunting permit for $50K for hunting either Goral or Marco Polo sheep.

Daily Times

Arab and western hunters have posed a great threat to the wildlife in Pakistan at the two largest game sites, Kirthar National Park (KNP) of Sindh and Hingol National Park (HNP) of Balochistan. The unabated shooting has resulted in the decline of wildlife, especially the ibex and urial, but, after extensive efforts from the SWMB, the two precious animals are no longer in danger of extinction, said the sources.

[shooter]

Please note the use of term 'unabated shooting'. whats also not mentioned here is the extensive poaching. please see the forum pakguns and posts by qaiser khan.

And this news that you have posted still doesnt prove that pakistan hasnt done a better job than us.

N grewal is right about the cost. this tag is for markhor. and may even cost more.

dear matchlock please please tell me your views about kenya and its animal population depletion and why the number of deer is on the rise in uk and america despite hunting. u cant just select one news after a week and come back with a random reply and choose to ignore the rest of the posts.

[Sakobav]

Folks Take a look at this first Poaching Family of India..the whole family is involved -- honestly speaking isnt it more humane to shoot an animal then that torture using traps , knives etc..

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20091119/dun.htm#4

Notorious tiger poacher nabbed
Jotirmay Thapliyal
Tribune News Service

Dehradun, November 18
Notorious tiger poacher Totharam, alias Birbal Bawaria, has been nabbed. This is for the third time that the smuggler has been arrested from the state.

In a joint early morning operation of the Wildlife Protection Society of India (WPSI), the Uttarakhand Police and the Terai East Division, Totharam of Panipat and his associate Naresh, a resident of Bansaba, were arrested from the Khatima forest range in Champawat district.

“Acting on a tip-off, the WPSI, along with the forest authorities in assistance with the Uttarakhand Police, nabbed Totharam when he and his associates were laying trap in the Khatima range,” said WPSI coordinator, Uttarakhand, Rajendra Aggarwal.

The team also seized a steel trap, a semi-made steel trap, two sharp knives, a net, two antlers, two mobile phones and a motorcycle.

Head of the Bawaria poaching gang active in the Kumaon region, Totharam hails from a family of tiger poachers. He was arrested in 2004 from the Banbasa region by Terai East Division officials when he was found in possession of tiger skin. Similarly in 2003, he was arrested and a leopard skin seized from his possession.

His sister Dilpo, too, was recently convicted to five years rigorous imprisonment by a court in Pilibhit, Uttar Pradesh, for a 1992 tiger case. She had earlier also been convicted in November 2005, by a court in Bahraich, Uttar Pradesh, for carrying the skin and bones of a tiger that was killed at Katerniaghat Wildlife Sanctuary in February 2005.

Totharam has been frequenting Nepal and is considered to be part of an international poaching racket. He is also considered to be linked to Dariya, another notorious wildlife smuggler, who hails from Hariyana.

A day earlier, the forest authorities in Kumaon had issued a red alert in forest areas bordering Pitthoragarh after two youths were arrested by the Moradabad police from the region and two leopard skins seized from their possession. Security was also strengthened in the checkposts of Ghat, Sera Ghat, Jauljibi, Jhulaghat and the Dharchula bridge linking Pitthoragarh district to Nepal.

-- Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:50 pm --

Check this report so poachers earned Rs 900 Crores in last 10 years ....couldnt the govt earned the same amount or near abouts by simply licensing and auctioning permits..Rather than gifting these animals away to poachers and black market!
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/200505 ... /main1.htm

From a peak population of 4,334 tigers in the wild in 1989, it is now estimated to have dropped to 3,500.

In Project Tiger reserves, which harbour 50 per cent of the tiger population, the figure is put at 1,600.

In the CBI report on Sariska tiger reserve between 1995 and 2003, there were 24-28 tigers. In 2004, the number of tigers was between 16 and 18. Since September 2004, no tiger has been sighted. It is now extinct.

Since 1995, the number of tigers killed is estimated to be 1,500 and the poachers have earned over Rs 900 crore by selling tiger skin and other parts in the past 10 years.

[hvj1]

Ngrewal,
And the story will continue, till we have no tigers left, its really remarkable, that I had posted a reply on the same topic too which you had replied to,but there were no takers, no constructive suggestions or criticism apart from some raised eyebrows on using the army for preserving our forests. When I asked for alternatives, no reply. So the trouble with this country is that people tend to sit back and make a lot of noise but when it comes to DOING anything contructive, they suddenly disappear.
This is evident on all major issues like filing grievances for RKBA online. Thus far, only 18 people have responded. Until unless this country is kicked on its backside , nothing much happens, (and lets not blame only the politicians, they only the reflect the masses).Past kicks which have woken us up from our slumber- Kargil, 26/11...
R

-- Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:20 am --

[shooter]

as stated by Chris Peckham, how does one save an animal which is worth more dead than alive?
this is a sad state of affairs.

Another thing which some of our members might not be aware of.

This bawaria caste, they are a caste of "shikari" of old times. i mean hunting assistants for the lack of another word. They had knowledge of forests and would live off the land. Several generations worth of knowledge about the forests passed down generations.

They were trappers; would do so for food.

When the british started ruling india, they started rewarding people for killing big cats and wolves, a lot of forest castes and tribes starting "killing' for thses rewards.

Now many of them work in the cities, many of them remain poachers and most of them still only do it for food. but some have become big poachers.

Several other castes and tribes have also resorted to poaching.

While hvj is absolutely spot on in saying politicians reflect the masses, these poachers are also a reflection of our society, of us really who will do many things (if not anything) to make money even if it is at the cost of environment. be it as trivial as buying land, or as mojor as shahtoosh shawls, a lot of our actions directly or indirectly responsible for this destruction of our flora and fauna.
I guess we should just get as many pictures of forests and tigers as we can while we still can. Then we can even sell them for a profit when there are no more tigers or forests.
Well done india. Rising and shining.