Hunting and food
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PLEASE NOTE: There is currently a complete ban on Hunting/ Shikar in India. IFG DOES NOT ALLOW any posts of an illegal nature, and anyone making such posts will face immediate disciplinary measures.
PLEASE NOTE: There is currently a complete ban on Hunting/ Shikar in India. IFG DOES NOT ALLOW any posts of an illegal nature, and anyone making such posts will face immediate disciplinary measures.
- shooter
- Old Timer
- Posts: 2002
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:55 pm
- Location: London
Hunting and food
This article is dedicated to hvj our eminent ifgian and others who share his viewpoint.
I came across this article in shooting times.
It mirrors my thoughts completely but pens them down more eloquently than I could.
The author's name is Keith Poyser.
Food, Glorious Food
Stalking is by its very nature a hunter gatherer activity; it is this that pulls many of us to it. For some it is simply an interest, indulged now and again, while for others it is more consuming. For those others it is part of a life lived for the woods, the fields, the dappled light through summer leaves, the cold beauty of the frost frozen morning. However strongly we feel the pull, putting wild
food on our menu must be an integral part of what we do and why we do it, or it becomes indefensible.
The hunter hunts, the gatherer gathers, historically at least, because of the need to eat. Even today, in our pre-packaged urban little society of multiple choice “instant everything”, those of us who choose to shoot game are also likely to meander along hedgerows for sloes, blackberries, rosehips and quinces, we may take mushrooms and chestnuts from fields and beech woods, , and even cut
hazel and willow rods for our fences and sticks.
This is not because we have to, when we can buy every conceivable fruit and vegetable in or out of season, along with our meat and fish, a short trip away. And if we did this, we would not need to dig the garden, prune our fruit trees, get wet and cold, skin, pluck, gut, gralloch or butcher. Nor would we need to pull the trigger and watch the life fade from the eyes of a wild animal, or the
feathers grow dull on the iridescent blue neck of a pigeon, nor lose the bright jewels of colour in a pheasant's wing.
We do it because we feel the pull of nature and our place within it, we do it to feel proud of our ability to track, find, shoot and use an intelligent wild animal, one that we respect. If we are stalkers, we choose our shots carefully to try and benefit the wider herd, as we know that long ago our forefathers destroyed the deer's natural predators to protect their stocks, so now we have to be
that predator. We know that without this control, less humane methods might be used to control larger numbers of deer; shotgun drives, trapping or worse, as deer numbers steadily increase and conflict with forestry, agricultural, and road safety interests.
If we are to protect our pursuits, in the same way that there is a general move towards smaller bags on pheasant shoots, with the “game to eat”campaign, PR, and more transparency through the whole process of rearing, to release, to table, we have to do the same in all our fields of sport in whatever arena: whether in wood, field or stream. Jamie Oliver on television, shooting a boar in Italy, or
Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall stalking a Dorset roe buck for the spit roast, this is exactly the start we need. We should all of us start telling people where food comes from, for many people have
forgotten. The little Italian toddler with Jamie, seeing the boar hanging in her family barn was not in the least distressed – it was as natural as watching her family make bread or pasta. When I am butchering a deer carcass at home, my 2 year old watches, and he knows where this food comes from, just as he does the vegetables in the garden. The thing here is the emphasis on food, and it becomes an easy argument to win, as we must, to protect what we do in difficult times. The enemy of our sport is a lack of understanding in our urban world.
Economic arguments on shooting contributions to the public's benefit are of merit, and carry political weight with the right audience, but don't carry the case with the general public. John Doe ( pardon the pun) doesn't seem to equate economics with the need to kill a creature such as a deer.
Pound signs versus big brown Walt Disney doe eyes won't persuade him. The need for Deer Management in the face of a lack of natural predation can be more easily understood and explained, even in the face of the urban vegan who argues that since he has never seen one there cannot be a population problem. Road traffic accidents involving deer are hard fact though likely underreported.
The sometimes seen LACS etc. opposing point of view that all natural species, aside from man, are self managing in terms of population levels being stable and sustainable in any available area of food resource, is a viable one only if we were to disregard any concern for the overall health of the population. In the absence of control a likely implosion would occur, as a result of disease due to population density and food constraints, prior to a levelling out of numbers at a far
higher level than today. This would clearly conflict even further with farmers and forestry, and again lead to inappropriate control measures. But deer management seems coldly utilitarian to nonshooters, and does not solve their dilemma of why as an individual we chose to take the life we
take, when we take that shot.
But the provision of food, the whole point of the hunter, is the easy defence to this. When I take that shot I have already promised myself that I will use all of the deer I can. I am not generally shooting an animal in the prime of its condition, I am not shooting it for it's head, I am shooting it because it is part of a plan of control that will benefit and help sustain the wider herd. And most importantly,
me at least, I will eat as much of it as possible. Those that pay for their accompanied stalking by the day and where the carcass is owned by the estate should equally feel comfortable (and know as they have asked) that the estate will butcher and sell the meat as steaks, roasts and sausages. Those of us
lucky enough to have an area or two where we can stalk alone and keep the carcass, have a duty to the animal that we must see through. These animals are an asset, which we as stalkers understand and seek to help maintain a balance. Without that balance they become vermin, with the resultant control far worse than that which they suffer today. The talk of shotgun drives to control muntjac
here has already shown what happens with excessive population of any species.
Stalking doesn't start and stop with pulling the trigger, any more than fishing starts and stops with the tap on the head from the priest. The scenery, the stalk, the skill are what quickens the heart whether the gleaming speckled trout, or the elfin woodland roe. Contemplating the beast, and the life you have just taken, bleeding and gralloching him cleanly, these are what slows the heart again with the touch of sadness that comes each time. Even the effort of carrying the carcass out are all part of the experience surely, and part of the connection to what has just been done. If on an accompanied stalk on an estate I always offer to make the gralloch myself, and help later in the larder, even though I am not expected to. And just as on a game shoot, where all shooters should take home a brace and eat them, we should also take some venison from the estate ourselves if we stalk there. Our shooting then becomes inherently understandable by anyone who eats meat or even wears leather, and we are truly hunters not just shooters.
When I am asked about interests outside work, I always say I shoot, amongst a number of things. People are often surprised and often assume I mean simply targets. A slightly nervous and hopeful tone always asks the question “But you don't shoot animals, do you?”. I always ask if that person eats meat – and they invariably do. I then ask where their last meat, from a cow, pig or sheep, came
from. I ask what kind of life it led, was it well treated, did it live well, naturally, and unless free range, if it had been stuffed with antibiotics, growth hormones, an artificial diet, enclosure and likely discomfort. I then ask what kind of death it had, likely in a large scale abattoir. They generally have not thought of any of this, because their meat is prepackaged, sterile, not hung, plastic wrapped, and does not resemble an animal or easily identifiable part of it. They generally do not want to think about it either, and it is not my job to force them, though Hugh seems to have taken this mission on, and good for him.
Meat to most is simply another product, often processed, with no thought to flavour, intensive farming having reduced the glory of meat to an unidentified piece of protein, cheapening the animal, the cook and the consumer of it. We have lost our respect for it, as we have sought to distance ourselves from its source and the loss of life that it entailed, just as we have lost a connection to seasons and produce. When I point out my shot venison most likely lived well, was wild, contained no steroid or antibiotic additives, had a rich and varied natural diet, and lived a natural life in distinct contrast to our intensively farmed livestock, they pause for thought. When I point out that the deer did not go in a crowded truck to an abattoir., but died instantly, ( if I have done my part properly) and unknowingly, without suffering, and in it's natural home, they go quiet.
And when I tell them I clean the animal myself, hang and butcher it, creating steaks, roasts, joints, and make the rest into delicious sausages, in short I respect it and do it justice, they look at me in a different way and say they at least start to understand. Friends, neighbours, and work colleagues have all had venison from me, all wanted more, and some have asked to come out stalking.
I recently took a group of 13 business colleagues to the British Sporting Rifle Club to experience something a little different from the average team building experience. Some were nervous when I did the safety brief and passed around 2 rifles. I talked them through ballistics, a little on deer management, and why we shot, and why we practiced. On the range, shooting a limited “stalkers
test”, running boar and running deer targets, and with excellent and patient Range Officer assistance, they went from nerves, to fright at the noise and power of a centrefire, through competitive determination, and became a new group of allies for shooting. A little awareness goes a long way : they were “astonished” at the power of a rifle,and importantly felt if everyone had shot one, illegal gun crime would fall as people realised this wasn't the movies and how catastrophic a
gun shot would be. They also understood how deer were controlled, why this was done, the respect for deer this involves, and the great food that resulted. While some said they could not personally shoot a live animal (and recognised the slight hypocrisy of eating meat you could not kill yourself), they absolutely understood others doing so. Others asked to come stalking. I respected both.
So when asked about shooting of whatever type, lets tell when we have the chance, lets introduce others to the experience, and when we can , lets give away our delicious wild food to non-shooters and tell them gently about the “how and why” of it getting to their plate. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach after all.....
I came across this article in shooting times.
It mirrors my thoughts completely but pens them down more eloquently than I could.
The author's name is Keith Poyser.
Food, Glorious Food
Stalking is by its very nature a hunter gatherer activity; it is this that pulls many of us to it. For some it is simply an interest, indulged now and again, while for others it is more consuming. For those others it is part of a life lived for the woods, the fields, the dappled light through summer leaves, the cold beauty of the frost frozen morning. However strongly we feel the pull, putting wild
food on our menu must be an integral part of what we do and why we do it, or it becomes indefensible.
The hunter hunts, the gatherer gathers, historically at least, because of the need to eat. Even today, in our pre-packaged urban little society of multiple choice “instant everything”, those of us who choose to shoot game are also likely to meander along hedgerows for sloes, blackberries, rosehips and quinces, we may take mushrooms and chestnuts from fields and beech woods, , and even cut
hazel and willow rods for our fences and sticks.
This is not because we have to, when we can buy every conceivable fruit and vegetable in or out of season, along with our meat and fish, a short trip away. And if we did this, we would not need to dig the garden, prune our fruit trees, get wet and cold, skin, pluck, gut, gralloch or butcher. Nor would we need to pull the trigger and watch the life fade from the eyes of a wild animal, or the
feathers grow dull on the iridescent blue neck of a pigeon, nor lose the bright jewels of colour in a pheasant's wing.
We do it because we feel the pull of nature and our place within it, we do it to feel proud of our ability to track, find, shoot and use an intelligent wild animal, one that we respect. If we are stalkers, we choose our shots carefully to try and benefit the wider herd, as we know that long ago our forefathers destroyed the deer's natural predators to protect their stocks, so now we have to be
that predator. We know that without this control, less humane methods might be used to control larger numbers of deer; shotgun drives, trapping or worse, as deer numbers steadily increase and conflict with forestry, agricultural, and road safety interests.
If we are to protect our pursuits, in the same way that there is a general move towards smaller bags on pheasant shoots, with the “game to eat”campaign, PR, and more transparency through the whole process of rearing, to release, to table, we have to do the same in all our fields of sport in whatever arena: whether in wood, field or stream. Jamie Oliver on television, shooting a boar in Italy, or
Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall stalking a Dorset roe buck for the spit roast, this is exactly the start we need. We should all of us start telling people where food comes from, for many people have
forgotten. The little Italian toddler with Jamie, seeing the boar hanging in her family barn was not in the least distressed – it was as natural as watching her family make bread or pasta. When I am butchering a deer carcass at home, my 2 year old watches, and he knows where this food comes from, just as he does the vegetables in the garden. The thing here is the emphasis on food, and it becomes an easy argument to win, as we must, to protect what we do in difficult times. The enemy of our sport is a lack of understanding in our urban world.
Economic arguments on shooting contributions to the public's benefit are of merit, and carry political weight with the right audience, but don't carry the case with the general public. John Doe ( pardon the pun) doesn't seem to equate economics with the need to kill a creature such as a deer.
Pound signs versus big brown Walt Disney doe eyes won't persuade him. The need for Deer Management in the face of a lack of natural predation can be more easily understood and explained, even in the face of the urban vegan who argues that since he has never seen one there cannot be a population problem. Road traffic accidents involving deer are hard fact though likely underreported.
The sometimes seen LACS etc. opposing point of view that all natural species, aside from man, are self managing in terms of population levels being stable and sustainable in any available area of food resource, is a viable one only if we were to disregard any concern for the overall health of the population. In the absence of control a likely implosion would occur, as a result of disease due to population density and food constraints, prior to a levelling out of numbers at a far
higher level than today. This would clearly conflict even further with farmers and forestry, and again lead to inappropriate control measures. But deer management seems coldly utilitarian to nonshooters, and does not solve their dilemma of why as an individual we chose to take the life we
take, when we take that shot.
But the provision of food, the whole point of the hunter, is the easy defence to this. When I take that shot I have already promised myself that I will use all of the deer I can. I am not generally shooting an animal in the prime of its condition, I am not shooting it for it's head, I am shooting it because it is part of a plan of control that will benefit and help sustain the wider herd. And most importantly,
me at least, I will eat as much of it as possible. Those that pay for their accompanied stalking by the day and where the carcass is owned by the estate should equally feel comfortable (and know as they have asked) that the estate will butcher and sell the meat as steaks, roasts and sausages. Those of us
lucky enough to have an area or two where we can stalk alone and keep the carcass, have a duty to the animal that we must see through. These animals are an asset, which we as stalkers understand and seek to help maintain a balance. Without that balance they become vermin, with the resultant control far worse than that which they suffer today. The talk of shotgun drives to control muntjac
here has already shown what happens with excessive population of any species.
Stalking doesn't start and stop with pulling the trigger, any more than fishing starts and stops with the tap on the head from the priest. The scenery, the stalk, the skill are what quickens the heart whether the gleaming speckled trout, or the elfin woodland roe. Contemplating the beast, and the life you have just taken, bleeding and gralloching him cleanly, these are what slows the heart again with the touch of sadness that comes each time. Even the effort of carrying the carcass out are all part of the experience surely, and part of the connection to what has just been done. If on an accompanied stalk on an estate I always offer to make the gralloch myself, and help later in the larder, even though I am not expected to. And just as on a game shoot, where all shooters should take home a brace and eat them, we should also take some venison from the estate ourselves if we stalk there. Our shooting then becomes inherently understandable by anyone who eats meat or even wears leather, and we are truly hunters not just shooters.
When I am asked about interests outside work, I always say I shoot, amongst a number of things. People are often surprised and often assume I mean simply targets. A slightly nervous and hopeful tone always asks the question “But you don't shoot animals, do you?”. I always ask if that person eats meat – and they invariably do. I then ask where their last meat, from a cow, pig or sheep, came
from. I ask what kind of life it led, was it well treated, did it live well, naturally, and unless free range, if it had been stuffed with antibiotics, growth hormones, an artificial diet, enclosure and likely discomfort. I then ask what kind of death it had, likely in a large scale abattoir. They generally have not thought of any of this, because their meat is prepackaged, sterile, not hung, plastic wrapped, and does not resemble an animal or easily identifiable part of it. They generally do not want to think about it either, and it is not my job to force them, though Hugh seems to have taken this mission on, and good for him.
Meat to most is simply another product, often processed, with no thought to flavour, intensive farming having reduced the glory of meat to an unidentified piece of protein, cheapening the animal, the cook and the consumer of it. We have lost our respect for it, as we have sought to distance ourselves from its source and the loss of life that it entailed, just as we have lost a connection to seasons and produce. When I point out my shot venison most likely lived well, was wild, contained no steroid or antibiotic additives, had a rich and varied natural diet, and lived a natural life in distinct contrast to our intensively farmed livestock, they pause for thought. When I point out that the deer did not go in a crowded truck to an abattoir., but died instantly, ( if I have done my part properly) and unknowingly, without suffering, and in it's natural home, they go quiet.
And when I tell them I clean the animal myself, hang and butcher it, creating steaks, roasts, joints, and make the rest into delicious sausages, in short I respect it and do it justice, they look at me in a different way and say they at least start to understand. Friends, neighbours, and work colleagues have all had venison from me, all wanted more, and some have asked to come out stalking.
I recently took a group of 13 business colleagues to the British Sporting Rifle Club to experience something a little different from the average team building experience. Some were nervous when I did the safety brief and passed around 2 rifles. I talked them through ballistics, a little on deer management, and why we shot, and why we practiced. On the range, shooting a limited “stalkers
test”, running boar and running deer targets, and with excellent and patient Range Officer assistance, they went from nerves, to fright at the noise and power of a centrefire, through competitive determination, and became a new group of allies for shooting. A little awareness goes a long way : they were “astonished” at the power of a rifle,and importantly felt if everyone had shot one, illegal gun crime would fall as people realised this wasn't the movies and how catastrophic a
gun shot would be. They also understood how deer were controlled, why this was done, the respect for deer this involves, and the great food that resulted. While some said they could not personally shoot a live animal (and recognised the slight hypocrisy of eating meat you could not kill yourself), they absolutely understood others doing so. Others asked to come stalking. I respected both.
So when asked about shooting of whatever type, lets tell when we have the chance, lets introduce others to the experience, and when we can , lets give away our delicious wild food to non-shooters and tell them gently about the “how and why” of it getting to their plate. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach after all.....
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
-
- Eminent IFG'an
- Posts: 1369
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:05 am
- Location: Satara
Re: Hunting and food
Very interesting article with a compelling argument within its fold.
-
- Poster of the Month - Aug 2011
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:06 pm
- Location: India
Re: Hunting and food
Very interesting article . Obviously written by a person living in the west were meat is "prepackaged,sterile,not hung, plastic wrapped and does not rememble an animal or easily identifiable part."
I have a friend who lives in Toronto had to drive his little son to the countryside and show him a dairy because the child strongly believed that milk came from the supermarket and not from cows. In India you have cows and buffalos walking on the streets .
Similarly in India we still have animals hanging in the meat shop where you can select the part you want and get the pieces cut accordingly. Infact most people prefer to get their "murgas" cut infront of their eyes while some buy their "bakras" occasionally.
I have a friend who lives in Toronto had to drive his little son to the countryside and show him a dairy because the child strongly believed that milk came from the supermarket and not from cows. In India you have cows and buffalos walking on the streets .
Similarly in India we still have animals hanging in the meat shop where you can select the part you want and get the pieces cut accordingly. Infact most people prefer to get their "murgas" cut infront of their eyes while some buy their "bakras" occasionally.
- shooter
- Old Timer
- Posts: 2002
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:55 pm
- Location: London
Re: Hunting and food
absolutely right bro. But i was more impressed by the soul of the article than the body (content).
Even over here one can go to the butcher and there are carcasses from which one can select ones cuts but most people buy from the supermarket and animal slaughter is only possible in the abbatoir.
Having said that, even in India, in big cities, many people are now buying meat from the supermarket or their servants go to the butchers and they have no clue about the various cuts.
In many families where they dont "cook or eat at home" the meat means tandoori chicken for starters and butter chicken for mains in a restaurant in town.
Remember as kids we had to remember "animal homes" like dog- kennel, horse-stable, lion-den.
Now a days kids say lion-zoo.
The spirit of this article i feel is very pure with a naturalist flavour.
Plus it is pro shooting, pro nature and pro ifg values.
Even over here one can go to the butcher and there are carcasses from which one can select ones cuts but most people buy from the supermarket and animal slaughter is only possible in the abbatoir.
Having said that, even in India, in big cities, many people are now buying meat from the supermarket or their servants go to the butchers and they have no clue about the various cuts.
In many families where they dont "cook or eat at home" the meat means tandoori chicken for starters and butter chicken for mains in a restaurant in town.
Remember as kids we had to remember "animal homes" like dog- kennel, horse-stable, lion-den.
Now a days kids say lion-zoo.
The spirit of this article i feel is very pure with a naturalist flavour.
Plus it is pro shooting, pro nature and pro ifg values.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
-
- One of Us (Nirvana)
- Posts: 316
- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:00 am
- Location: madhya pradesh
Re: Hunting and food
" When I point out my shot venison most likely lived well, was wild, contained no steroid or antibiotic additives, had a rich and varied natural diet, and lived a natural life in distinct contrast to our intensively farmed livestock, they pause for thought. When I point out that the deer did not go in a crowded truck to an abattoir., but died instantly, ( if I have done my part properly) and unknowingly, without suffering, and in it's natural home, they go quiet. "
EXCELLENT ARTICLE BROTHER SHOOTER AND THANKS FOR BRINGING UP THIS POINT.
EXCELLENT ARTICLE BROTHER SHOOTER AND THANKS FOR BRINGING UP THIS POINT.
cu kar az hama hilate dar guzasht
halal ast burdan ba shamshir dast.
When all other means have failed,it is righteous to draw the sword
-- Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj
halal ast burdan ba shamshir dast.
When all other means have failed,it is righteous to draw the sword
-- Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj
- kanwar76
- Eminent IFG'an
- Posts: 1861
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:00 pm
- Location: Bang-a-lure
- Contact:
Re: Hunting and food
I think this thread is going OT 

I am the Saint the Soldier that walks in Peace. I am the Humble dust of your feet, But dont think my Spirituality makes me weak. The Heavens will roar if my Kirpan were to speak...
- shooter
- Old Timer
- Posts: 2002
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:55 pm
- Location: London
Re: Hunting and food
kanwar76 wrote:I think this thread is going OT


You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.