Empty chamber carry !!!

[marksman]

[liveleak]086_1260862712[/liveleak]

Please check out the above site and debate whether it's a good idea to carry a pistol with loaded chamber or not ???
This incidence occurred at a jewelry shop in Agra. This video footage was released by police to identify the culprits. The shopkeeper seems to be a brave man but the pistol failed him. Hope he lived through this.
Marksman

[nagarifle]

whether to carry fully loaded or not would depend on your threat level,

let say at home in a secure area with kids around one would need to think twice about fully loaded.

if at work at a jewellery shop fully loaded would not be a bad idea.

[mundaire]

I think this is the same shootout that was being discussed at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 02&start=0 - if it is then the shopkeeper, did not make it.

BTW the video is also a rather blunt example of the imperative need for the owner to be fully trained in the effective use of his/ her firearm.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[timmy]

Years back, my uncle ran a hardware store in a very tough section of the city. Robbery was always a constant threat, as it occurred regularly. He tried guard dogs, which the robbers poisoned. At one point, he had several handguns concealed around the premises. (He could not just stay behind the counter -- he had to cover the large store's floor with customers.)

In the end, he submitted to being robbed without resistance, and simply took the store's cash to the bank numerous times a day, to limit his losses.

He stopped using firearms because he was afraid someone would find one of the hidden guns and commit mayhem.

Two things led to his strategy of going to the bank often: First, my aunt was deaf and several times, the goons had my uncle and cousin on the floor by the cash register, holding sawed offs on them, while my aunt, oblivious to the whole thing, would be coming in and out of the back room.

Second, my uncle endured having to file police complaints, come back to the police station to pick out the perpetrator from a line up, and then file papers to press charges. All of this meant that he had to close the store and wasn't making any money. The final straw was when he came back after pressing charges, to find that the person who had just robbed him had posted bail and had been released before my uncle could finish the paperwork to press charges and return to the store. When he got back to the store, the robber was waiting by the door and taunting him, asking him where he'd been.

My uncle, in my mind, was responsible. I think that, when one chooses to protect one's self with a gun, one takes upon one's self to become proficient with the weapon and also to ensure that the choice to carry doesn't simply provide the "bad guys" with another weapon to commit mayhem. Just pulling out a gun and waving it around is not enough, as the video clearly shows. Pulling a gun can be as dangerous for the one who pulls it as it is for the one at who it is aimed, and it is the gun owner's responsibility to do all that can be done to ensure that the weapon is used effectively.

[msandhu]

On a related topic and this is regards to carrying IOF .32 revolver.
How do you carry the loaded revolver safely ? Is it advised to carry it fully loaded or carry one chamber ( where the striker is ) empty or 2 chambers empty ?
Last time i was in India and found that few people were carrying one chamber empty while few were carrying 2 chambers empty to be safe from accidental discharge.

For me ( with a pistol ) i usually carry it loaded and locked (though not cocked).

Regards
MSandhu

[nagarifle]

if there are six holes for the gullies to i would load all the holes its the only way.

[HydNawab]

What is the point of carrying a revolver/pistol or any weapon for that matter if the possessor is not trained to handle it and use it when the need arises. I know quite a few people who just carry weapons as a status symbol. These idiots consider it to be a sort of mens accessory or a glorified piece of jewellery even. I feel that it is the duty of every arms owner to protect himself and also his weapon.

A close relative of mine had a .32 S&W revolver on him when he was two people entered his house with a base ball bat. He did not have the balls to draw his weapon so they snatched it from him and broke his arm. They took the revolver as well. Ironically, he had to pay them Rs.30000/- in 1996 to return his own bloody weapon. The stupid wimp!

As for the jeweller, only he knows what kind of stress he went through during the attack but a little bit of practice might have made the difference.

Moral of the story boys and girls: Train with your weapons.

I carry my 1911 condition 1 but with the hammer decocked.

Some good advice from an SAS expert.

[youtube][/youtube]

[MoA]

When I do carry, its normally 1 in the chamber, decocked. An advantage of a the DA pistol is not having to pull back the hammer.

[goodboy_mentor]

On a related topic and this is regards to carrying IOF .32 revolver.
How do you carry the loaded revolver safely ? Is it advised to carry it fully loaded or carry one chamber ( where the striker is ) empty or 2 chambers empty ?

a) One chamber empty where the striker is would ensure if the revolver falls with hammer hitting hard surface, it would not go off. I would say that if one is so much careless with a loaded revolver, then it is better not to carry the revolver.
b) Two chambers empty(one were the striker is and the next to come in front of striker when trigger is pulled) Again I would say that if one is so much careless with a loaded revolver to the extent that he/she suspects that it can either fall on ground or the trigger can get pulled inadvertently(revolvers usually have a hard trigger pull), then it is better not to carry the revolver.
I am not sure if IOF .32 revolver has any safety mechanism to deal with above 2 scenarios.

[msandhu]

IOF.32 does have a safety button or something that locks the trigger and the hammer when pressed from one side. I just don't know how reliable it is
Cheers
MSandhu

[timmy]

I'm not familiar with the IOF .32 revolver, but here's what I would say:

Many revolvers, such as the famous old Colt Single Action Army, must never be carried with all 6 chambers loaded. Rather, the chamber under the hammer is left empty. This is because dropping the weapon or striking the hammer in some other way can cause the round under the hammer to go off.

In double action revolvers around the turn of the century, a hammer block was included in the lock mechanism. In Colts, this model became the "Police Positive," positive because it allowed one to carry the weapon with all 6 chambers loaded.

If your IOF .32 does not have this hammer block, then you should not load the chamber under the hammer. If you do have the hammer block, you should be able to load all 6 chambers. The IOF .32 looks like a Webley, and I'm expecting it has the hammer block feature, but I wouldn't want to make any pronouncements without having handled the weapon.

To leave 2 chambers open -- I'm not sure what the rationale is behind this. With the hammer block mechanisms I'm familiar with, if the hammer is accidentally pulled back, say by a twig or something, the hammer still can't fall on the next chamber's round because the trigger isn't pulled back.

Again, these are only my opinions -- please rely on someone who's handled the particular weapon in question.

[goodboy_mentor]

IOF.32 does have a safety button or something that locks the trigger and the hammer when pressed from one side. I just don't know how reliable it is

A gunsmith who is familiar with the safety mechanism of IOF .32 revolver may be able to give you an idea about the working and reliability of it. Other option would be to file an RTI application with IOF to get information about the working/reliability of safety mechanism of IOF .32 revolvers and what kind of tests has the IOF done to confirm it's reliability.

[lionheartguru]

the video clearly shows that the shopkeeper was hit by 1 or more bullet(s), right ?
however , what kinda pistol , as we can see, was he using for which he had to cock the hammer twice ( or whatever process that is called of pulling the top slider of a pistol which actually makes a bullet load in the chamber ).
i mean if he had just locked the pistol , since all pistol have a trigger lock option , and a little practice, as hydnawab says, he could have lived or not been shot .

I know it is difficult not to panic when one is been attacked with a gun or something . But then this shopkeeper withdrew his gun within seconds , which means he knew he was gonna be attacked ( possibly in the near future or might have got some tip about his life being in danger or some past experience) he could have had taken some measures such keeping the gun fully loaded or keeping the pistol with cocked but trigger locked .

the culprits literally kicked him and snatched his gun which means he either had 1-2 rounds ( i couldnt hear any sound from the video ) which he missed badly or his pistol got jammed !

[eljefe]

Bad /iffy ammo, minimal or no practice wont make up for the mindset.He did react pretty fast,even worked the slide...
The '3 letter' types have thousand of rounds to fire constantly and build up the mindset-psychomotor skills develop with repetition, its the mindset that CANT be developed with 25 rounds/ year.

[cottage cheese]

A gunsmith who is familiar with the safety mechanism of IOF .32 revolver may be able to give you an idea about the working and reliability of it. Other option would be to file an RTI application with IOF to get information about the working/reliability of safety mechanism of IOF .32 revolvers and what kind of tests has the IOF done to confirm it's reliability.

The IOF .32's frame is near clone of the Colt's M1903 Pocket Hammerless... opened the innards once and found it to be so....additionally, to get a fair idea of how it works, think of the M1911 mechanism in miniature. Likewise, unless the quality and fit of the IOF lock-work will define the safety/reliability of what is otherwise a pretty proven design.

That being said, I sincerely hope the unprincipled frauds at the IOF have not managed to bug*3r up an iconic mechanism....

regards,
cc