Indians For Guns

Does anybody carry in New Delhi?

I have a friend for 20 years now from New Delhi. He visits India every year at least once. He knows nothing about firearms. I doubt he knows a firearm can even be owned in India.

BTW, just for the record, I am old fat white guy born in the USA, not Indian. Well, maybe not quite fat anymore but no marathons in my future

Carrying a gun in Delhi is not in fashion . But in some states specially UP and Bihar it is a fashion or rather a matter of survival also in some areas.

There are very few licences in India, I think the Licences are with just about or less than 4% of the population of India. And out of these mostly they are for inherited 12 bore shot guns kept by people in rural areas. Another reason is that the Arms and Ammunition is rather expensive here and beyond the reach of the common man.
Taking the above into account, people do carry guns in Delhi but mostly concealed. There are a very few people like me who carry it openly, I would say the number of 'open carry' category is so small that a large number of people may never see any one 'open carry' a hand gun in their entire life. I am not taking into account professionals like Police or private security guards. (Private security guards mostly have a Double barrel 12 bore shot gun)

Regards

Atul

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:Does anybody carry in New Delhi?

I have a friend for 20 years now from New Delhi. He visits India every year at least once. He knows nothing about firearms. I doubt he knows a firearm can even be owned in India.

BTW, just for the record, I am old fat white guy born in the USA, not Indian. Well, maybe not quite fat anymore but no marathons in my future

Lovely introduction - again Commonwealth_of_PA - I quite love it, very tongue in cheek!

If you see a gun toting Indian (open carry, in a belt holster) in Delhi you can bet it is aadhaulya - go up and say hello; you should check his post on http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23336

ckkalyan wrote:

Commonwealth_of_PA wrote:Does anybody carry in New Delhi?

I have a friend for 20 years now from New Delhi. He visits India every year at least once. He knows nothing about firearms. I doubt he knows a firearm can even be owned in India.

BTW, just for the record, I am old fat white guy born in the USA, not Indian. Well, maybe not quite fat anymore but no marathons in my future

Lovely introduction - again Commonwealth_of_PA - I quite love it, very tongue in cheek!

If you see a gun toting Indian (open carry, in a belt holster) in Delhi you can bet it is aadhaulya - go up and say hello; you should check his post on http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23336

I Like That

Maybe I should change my name to 'Gun Toting Indian'

I AM LOVING IT

Have seen this gun carry culture in Shahjahanpur(UP) where i was posted a few years back-its ON in that belt

Andy, not only shahjahanpur, you could go over to Mainpuri (from where I belong originally), Itah, Itawa, bordering areas of Nepal etc. You would come across every second or third person carrying a gun.

Atul,

Question for you...

Since you open carry in Delhi, what do you do if you're going to a mall or a movie theater or any of those (practially all these days) locations where there are metal detectors and "security" guards ??

I'm exploring the legality of being denied to carry my legally licenced weapon. There are some confusions related to what constitutes a public place and a deemed private place etc. But more than that its the hassle of carrying, explaining, arguing etc with the guards and security personnel who are unwilling to even listed..

~C

Chandan22 wrote:I'm exploring the legality of being denied to carry my legally licenced weapon.

I do not have clear cut answer to this because the Constitutional and legal basis of licensing for matters that are for personal or private defense itself appears shaky and weak. It is Constitutionally and legally very clear and well settled matter that State is not competent to infringe the right of private defense(Sections 96 to 106 IPC) because it is a natural and human right. The right of private defense includes the right to mode and means of private defense. Mode and means of private defense includes RKBA. RKBA is a basic natural and human right. From which Articles of Constitution the State is getting the right to make natural and human rights a matter of licensing?

If you read Arms Rules 1962, on the very top it says "G.S.R. 987, dated 13th July, 1962-- In exercise of the powers conferred by Secs.5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 21 41 and 44 of the Arms Act, 1959 (54 of 1959), the Central Government hereby makes the following rules, namely:" Please note Sections 3 and 4 are missing. Any thoughts why? It can mean that the Parliament has not delegated to licensing authorities, the powers of licensing for matters of self protection/ self defense(this is a non commercial matter) because they are beyond the legislative powers of State. In other words the Sections 3 and 4 cannot not be part of Arms Rules 1962 for non commercial matters. Section 39 says that no prosecution shall be instituted against any person in respect of any offence under section 3 without the previous sanction of the district magistrate. Any thoughts why? Why it is the district magistrate and why it is not the licensing authority? It is to see if the person is not offending Sections 9 or 14 of Arms Act 1959, otherwise his license is deemed to have been issued. You may also read the following post http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 08#p229997

Now after reading these posts, if any of your lawyer friends could throw some more light on this matter? I am also interested to know this since I am writing about rebuttal to Draft Arms Rules.

Chandan22 wrote:There are some confusions related to what constitutes a public place and a deemed private place etc.

Public place is a place that is open to public. They may have some reasonable restrictions. Shopping malls are public place. They may have some reasonable restrictions. For example they may not allow persons who are drunk to enter and create public nuisance. Drunk persons cannot claim that it is their right to enter shopping mall in a drunk condition. But a person carrying weapon for self defense is something else. To trust the person or not trust the person? This is the question that needs answer. All the fundamental and human rights are also based on foundation of trust. You breach the trust, you get punished by law.

Private place is a place that is private. Your home is your private place. You decide who can or cannot enter your home.

Chandan22 wrote:Atul,

Question for you...

Since you open carry in Delhi, what do you do if you're going to a mall or a movie theater or any of those (practially all these days) locations where there are metal detectors and "security" guards ??

I'm exploring the legality of being denied to carry my legally licenced weapon. There are some confusions related to what constitutes a public place and a deemed private place etc. But more than that its the hassle of carrying, explaining, arguing etc with the guards and security personnel who are unwilling to even listed..

~C

Chandan,

I do not go to places which have a board saying that 'Arms & Ammunition Not allowed'. But otherwise in malls normally when they see me open carry they do not even bother to ask any question. But I carry my original License, specifically when visiting these kind of places.
But let me also add that during the last elections I applied and got permision to retain my arms. But limited to my house and place of work and the travelling between them.
Just to see what happens I carried my revolver every where, Only when I went to the court, while coming out there were two cops sitting on a motercycle and they pointedly looked at my revolver. But they also did not bother to ask me anything.
I suppose when you carry your gun exposed people probably think that you are somehow connected with law enforcement, Though, I do not look any thing like that. I have kept a pony tail for a few months and now I keep a french cut beard.
Only onr time the PCR fellows stopped my car for talking on the mobile. I got down and went to them and I was surprised to see that a cop had noticed two long guns on my back seat. But the senior most cop of the lot just asked me if it was a "LIcensee gun' and I told him that if it was not I would not be carrieng it openly, they were satisfied with that answer.
I now feel if you openly carry an unlisenced weapon also no body is going to stop you.

Regards

Atul

Chandan22 wrote:There are some confusions related to what constitutes a public place and a deemed private place etc.

Whenever anyone wants legal meaning of any word or expression, can refer to law dictionary. Black's Law Dictionary is well known and respected in legal circles. Even courts sometimes refer to it.

Black's Law Dictionary can be downloaded free from following links:

Black's Law Dictionary 9th Edition(around 90 MB in size) has been shared by some person via following link -



Black's Law Dictionary 4th Edition(around 10 MB in size) has been shared via following link -

http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/ ... 201891.pdf

Carrying firearms in Delhi is not a task of easy way through as compared to the boundary states like Gurgoan and UP.

harshit89 wrote:Carrying firearms in Delhi is not a task of easy way through as compared to the boundary states like Gurgoan and UP.

Harshit,

I did not understand, why would it be a task (easy or not) as unlike the USA, in India you get a license for a firearm and there is no restriction if you want to carry it openly or concealed, unloaded or loaded including the cartridge chambered, ready to fire.

Regards

Atul

Hello,

Atul, very interesting experiences..

I need to try this out. Although I'm usually in an untucked t-shirt over jeans, so even in an open carry, the gun won't be openly exposed, and I don't look like LE from any angle either. I do have an ankle holster and an IWB holster, both of which are concealed, so don't know how they will react to that.

Have carried the pistol around last week, in IWB, but its quite visible. No reactions till now. I guess people are not sensitised enough to even notice much less recognise a gun. I guess the psychology of not expecting someone to carry a gun impacts what they are seeing and what they are registering.

Anyways, will check out the malls etc when I go there. Although won't do that when with family as don't want to give them another excuse to crib about it...

Btw, you mailed the range admin?

~C

Chandan,

I have been too lazy to find out and make a 'Demand Draft' for filing the RTI to the Ministry of youth affairs and sports. Though I have found out the address of the CPIO nd the sports minister. It would be a help if you could guide me on the payment issue on how it is to be done??

Regards

Atul

You can file RTI application for any central government office through any designated post office. You can also pay by cash. If the cost of printed reply will be more than ten rupees, then instead of replying PIO will ask for more money within 30 days. To prevent wastage of time just pay some more amount (depending on number of questions and size of expected reply) and in the application write that balance amount be deposited in Prime Minister's relief fund. Details can be found in the following link http://www.moneylife.in/article/you-can ... 32602.html