Indians For Guns

Hi all,

My recent trip to the rape capital of India, Delhi, made me realise the growing threat of car jacking. An episode involving my family, (thankfully resolving positively), made me realise that danger is not far away.

the modus operandi(s) involve:

i. grabbing the victim at a red light/junction, holding a pistol/knife at the driver's window while asking for keys.
ii. chasing the victim's car using a single car or a pair, forcing him to stop, followed by method i.

the fact that the culprits have, in a recent series of cases, not only robbed the car, but murdered the driver as well, is concerning.

what do you gents feel are the options against the above?
i. pepper spray for the red light junction?
ii.in the indian context, a handgun like the .32 iof might just cheese them off and make them angrier? specially in method ii above? i would consider myself a maruti driving commoner who cannot afford to buy an "imported" gun at an exorbitant price
iii. will there be enough time/space to use a long gun : rifle or shotgun (maybe in method ii)

Pepper Spay is the only normal common difference system a normal citizen can have, be extra vigilant and cautious when having a late night lonely drives, but its scary its happening in places like delhi, in resent past a lady journalist of times now killed in this way.

what will be the chances of drawing the gun in the first place for self defence, at point blank range and in such close quarters.?when already the culprit is aiming his gun at us..if multiple culprits at both windows with guns,then what..my opinion..close quarters,point blank threats,multiple culprits with guns,.
1-hand over the keys and walk away,
2-hand over the keys and then shoot,IF a chance opens up.
3-driving a car,which even the robbers dont want to rob...
cars are cheaper than life..
syed..

SYED833 wrote:
1-hand over the keys and walk away,
2-hand over the keys and then shoot,IF a chance opens up.
3-driving a car,which even the robbers dont want to rob...
cars are cheaper than life..
syed..

you missed my point earlier. the trend now is to take your car AND murder you (or, at least kidnap you). handing over the keys seems to have no bearing on getting away alive.

oh..my bad..when there is no chance of getting out alive,what can we do..really,if its many bad guys with many guns,all aimed at one particular person,and if they intend to kill him, nothing can be done except fighting wisely..if its a do or die situation,might as well die trying to do it..right..
these kind of robbers are very hard to be taken down,mainly because they have strength in numbers,and the ruthlessness with which they carry out these killings,leaving no witnesses..
may GOD protect us from such animals..
if u dont mind me asking..what was the encounter you had?hope no one got hurt..
syed..

if hijackers after the car only, then install system which anti hijack. in case of hijack car will drive for 2-3 minutes and then stop. if hijackers not a complete idiots they will run. Another even better option install GPS tracking system on your car. Let them drive where they want then pay them a visit. Also install hidden camera in your car.

regarding this two situations, if such things happens you already lost. just give them keys and safe your live. few rules may help, never keep windows open in traffic, always keep doors locked. use security windows film. range are huge from 9mm protection to scratch resistant films and anti robbery films, like that one

http://www.llumar.com/en/AutoSafety.aspx

or simply buy new car something from that page

http://dartz.eu/en/dartz_site_bankz/vip-armored-car

point is that if you taken care and secured your car those punks cannot do much to you on traffic light, way opens ... drive ... if they will flatten your tires drive on flat.

actual most dangerous moment is when you are about to enter your car, you are closing to your car, you keep the keys in your hand, you deactivated alarm. that is most dangerous moment.

first of all, when you out side, it is always code yellow, you in your home on sofa it is code white, you see suspicious face it is code red any were at home or out side. if you outside and operating in code white, submerged into your world, you are easy target.

some rules I strictly follow: NEVER keep keys in hands while approaching your car, you may need your hand to be free for other things.

always check for blind spots were attackers can hide and wait for you.
see ANYBODY in blind spot, core red retreat immediately, that can be a child or security guy in uniform, or maintenance worker, non of then will be waiting for you in a blind spot ... normally.

there is many solutions up to any budget, at least alarm with anti hijac is a must. and educate your self.

also you can put a sticker on your car, - "before stealing hijacking call this number" PM me I will give you my wife's mother number.

last and most important thing, NEVER let them take you in a car with them

if you carry a gun I would recommend to read The Tactical Advantage by Gabriel Suarez

Happy New Year!!

-- Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:52 pm --

hamiclar01 wrote:

SYED833 wrote:
1-hand over the keys and walk away,
2-hand over the keys and then shoot,IF a chance opens up.
3-driving a car,which even the robbers dont want to rob...
cars are cheaper than life..
syed..

you missed my point earlier. the trend now is to take your car AND murder you (or, at least kidnap you). handing over the keys seems to have no bearing on getting away alive.

point why hijackers want you to push into your car is to prevent you from making alarm and call police, not necessary they are planing a murder, but if car owner behave not good that may just happens. if car stationary I would get out of car immediately. if you inside and they near your open window it is too late.

I and my friend were carjacked in Kenya. There were five thugs in two cars. At least two were armed. One pointed an AK to my head couple of inches away and another had a 1911. We were very lucky. They were after the car and did not harm me or my friend though they did threaten to kill us repeatedly.

Here is what I would suggest.

- Don't stop at red light at night. That's what we started doing after the incident. You can always explain to the
cops.
- Always roll up windows and lock doors. You have a layer of defence with this.
- If above two not possible then don't resist, do what they say, don't scream, shout, cry or panic.

Please note this is not just common sense that's what private security companies and car insurance companies there advised to do as well.

Cannot offer any advice on an armed response.

M.

hamiclar01 wrote:Hi all,

My recent trip to the rape capital of India, Delhi, made me realise the growing threat of car jacking. An episode involving my family, (thankfully resolving positively), made me realise that danger is not far away.

the modus operandi(s) involve:

i. grabbing the victim at a red light/junction, holding a pistol/knife at the driver's window while asking for keys.
ii. chasing the victim's car using a single car or a pair, forcing him to stop, followed by method i.

the fact that the culprits have, in a recent series of cases, not only robbed the car, but murdered the driver as well, is concerning.

what do you gents feel are the options against the above?
i. pepper spray for the red light junction?
ii.in the indian context, a handgun like the .32 iof might just cheese them off and make them angrier? specially in method ii above? i would consider myself a maruti driving commoner who cannot afford to buy an "imported" gun at an exorbitant price
iii. will there be enough time/space to use a long gun : rifle or shotgun (maybe in method ii)

Thanks for the sensible replies Gents

- Don't stop at red light at night. That's what we started doing after the incident. You can always explain to the cops.

good point...

I can add that on highway NEVER stop, at night, if you see police car and police near that car will be waving you to stop, or just police without car. Most dangerous thing to do in many countries. Stop only if police stopping you on authorized properly designed post. A lot of people been killed, by goons in police uniform.

fantumfan2003 wrote:I One pointed an AK to my head couple of inches away and another had a 1911. We were very lucky.

One tough scene where i am sure i would've crapped in my pants! you have handled it the best way Manish.

Like any other crimes, car-jacking in cities can end up very bad! just to avoid attention from public before the "operation" the criminals would avoid masks or other methods to hide identity! and this he can take care of destroying the only one or few who knows he is "the" Criminal! ..

If the face of the attacker is behind a bandana or is masked, its better if you handoff the keys and stay calm. If the goon looks confident doing what he is doing and is exposed, its better to go for the shot, or run... ok its not just run, its RUN!!!!!! at the most unexpected time for the assailant, if the key is not already with the offender handover throw it down before running!

Multiple assailants or dependents in car can make this difficult! there can be precautionary measure in methods already discussed,
1) don't stop at red light, (suspicous regions)
2) dont stop unless the stop has clear markations (Checkposts/Aidposts)
3) switch on the A/C, rollup the windows, (its damn tough to crack even the most cost efective car's glasses!!)
4) keep the doors locked

additionally, City driving would've got us into the habit of 'close quarter driving', which we have to take a conscious effort to stop.. stop a bit short of the vehicle ahead, make sure you can see the rear tyres of the vehicle in front, this will let you steer sideways if needed. (this if the vehicle in front is what's stalking you!)

The best weapon we have is clear thinking, its never the gun! so CALM !...

Thomas

PS: this is really important and can we get to publicise a concise article in media. I mean such threats and course of actions/ safety measures in the label of NAGRI. We can get quite a good base of readers/ viewers in media, this involves 100% of Civilians interests, especially since he will spent a good number of lakhs in cash on his car, but not INR 299 on a pepper spray!!

Keep your windows up. Your car door locked at all times. It's your awareness of your surroundings that is important. If you slacken you will be a venerable target to a mugger or attacker. Pepper spray is fine but has some disadvantages in terms of rebounding back to you. That may impair your vision and prevent a getaway. Getting away from the situation is your primary concern. Specially if you have women and children in your car.
Threat assesment is very important. Are they after you, your money. Often it's wise to keep some loose cash handy in your car. Sometimes a guy just wants to make a fast buck. This happens on the highway and I have encountered this myself. A aggressive driving style often discourages them as they feel you may run them over. Again try your best to assess the threat level.
Regards
Bruno22

All have given very practical opinions. The real problem is when these gangs simply kill the occupants of car, even if they comply, just to finish any witnesses. Couple of years ago I read in newspaper the entire family including a doctor, his wife and daughters(probably after raping them) were killed by car hijackers on a highway somewhere in Uttar Pradesh.

In my opinion being alert of the possible surprises and avoiding trouble is the best option. If one has to travel at night on lonely roads, every occupant of the car should be properly armed and organized(just like a gang) preferably with firearms and if confronted with life/death situation, then should be mentally prepared to kill as many as possible in the shortest possible time. In my opinion pepper spray etc. is only good enough for one or two attackers, not a gang armed with all manner of arms. Moreover in a windy or rainy day it is useless.

Carjacking is a big thing in South Africa. Here is a device, apparently available there, which will set a potential carjacker hotfooting it ways from the scene (literally).
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xl_target wrote:Carjacking is a big thing in South Africa. Here is a device, apparently available there, which will set a potential carjacker hotfooting it ways from the scene (literally).
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that is superb, same can be made with use of chilly powder. also non lethal micro wave already on market, soon will be available from China on affordable price

What wounder me is till what extend this crime have to escalate to make people think differently.

so what would be your next car in that content??

xl_target wrote:Carjacking is a big thing in South Africa. Here is a device, apparently available there, which will set a potential carjacker hotfooting it ways from the scene (literally).

Bit disturbing. What if it misfires....when we are unlocking the car ourselves, or a traffic cop is flagging us down to clear the road for Manmohan Singh's next rally