Your Concealed Carry and/or Home defense weapon

[penpusher]

Discussion on SigForum on a similar issue.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/ ... #708108436

If you don't mind the droppings in the yard of your house and if you have sufficient space , Geese also do a pretty good job of creating a ruckus on spotting an intruder. All the discussion's point to the fact that guns are usefull only if there is some warning of an intruder entering the house.

Take care,
penpusher

[axp817]

I agree, guns are useful only when you have some sort of a 'notice' on the intruder's arrival.

Of course if you open your eyes to find the intruder's knife/gun in your face, then the loaded .45 lying under your bed is no good.

But then, what are the chances of the intruder getting to your bed and in your face without making any noise at all? Slim, I would say, but let us say 50%, to give someone the benefit of doubt. So, if there is a 50% chance that someone could get to your bed and in your face and your not sensing it, then there is also a 50% chance of your sensing the break-in and waking up. It is that 50% that the .45 under the bed is for.

-Naren

[penpusher]

Naren,

Make that 90% chance of not waking up and 10% chance of you waking up.Thieves would never operate on a 50-50 possibility of success.You should consider the fact that in India there are thieves who take up this as a hereditary profession and have the benefit of generations of experience of breaking in and stealing.

Bars on the windows are suprisingly easy to break without making too much of a noise.The same goes for the mortise locks most homes have on the doors these days.The best way to bar the door I have seen is the old method of putting a heavy wooden baton across the door and fitting into slots on either side.Another variation is an iron bar turned on both sides that hooks into iron rings.You off course require solid wooden doors for this system to work intead of the board ones used these days.

Take care,
penpusher

[axp817]

Very true penpusher. It would probably be more of a 90% chance of not waking up instead of 50% as I would like to believe, especially in my case, since I am a deep sleeper.

I have a friend whose father was murdered in a similar situation.

His father sometimes travelled to another city an hour away on business and spent the nights at their farmhouse in that city. The house is big and on the outskirts with a lot of empty land surrounding it. My friend's father was probably sound asleep when the burglars broke in, he was found unconscious the next morning when people went in to look, since he had not showed up for an important meeting. He passed away in the hospital.

He was hit hard on the back of his head with a thick blunt object which probably knocked him unconscious. It is not known whether he was hit when he was asleep or whether he got up and tried to resist or whether he just got up and the burglars noticed that and hit him to prevent him from shouting/calling for help.

I always wonder if a handy firearm could have saved his life.

I agree with most of the arguments offered in this thread and do understand that in many a situation a firearm closeby might not help at all. But I do believe that it is still better to have it close enough (within easy reach of yourself but not of the assailant) and loaded than in the closet/almirah.

Thanks,
Naren

On a side note,
I find it very interesting that we are able to generate multi dimensional thought on these issues on IFG, especially due to our membership being so diverse - lawyers, doctors, architects, farmers, engineers, journalists, people with law enforcement/military backgrounds/family connections, living in different parts of the country and the world, etc.

[Sakobav]

If you don't mind the droppings in the yard of your house and if you have sufficient space , Geese also do a pretty good job of creating a ruckus on spotting an intruder.


penpusher

There were and may be still are families in my village who have geese and you are correct they not only cackle like hell but also poke and go after your ankles. They are good at sounding alerting against intruders.

Navdeep

[eljefe]

Eclectic-From geese to 12 ga star flash to picatinny rails and doberman's
We have a great thing going... any consensus for India?
Please remember that gunowners here are viewd with suspicion as potential criminals, while criminals get to go to parliament...so try to keep suggestions real life! Who knows , this forum might help save some one in a sticky situation??
Best
Asif

[penpusher]

Lets just say that you need a way to warn you of an intrusion in your house .A no. of Indian companies offer burglar allarms and the basic version/ kit starts as low as 10-15,000/- and this can go upto a lakh or more. Thats money well spent , considering that you are protecting your and your families life. Few intruders would try to push their luck once they set off a burglar alarm. And you don't need a license to get one installed.This worked for me once.The alarm scared away whoever was trying to remove the window grill to get into the living room.

Back this up with a dog and a gun and you have a foolproof system of protecting yourself and your family (have never kept dogs, compensate for this by having more guns )

Take care,
penpusher

[Kshatriya]

I feel this poster sums it up perfectly

[Ranjeet Singh]

Not for self defense, but a dog can protect against unwanted sales guys, unwanted seekers of donations, and all that..Plus a great company

And I guess as someone mentioned in the old yahoo group..Guns and Dogs do go together..

---'Removed the pics after mehul's troll-- warning

[eljefe]

Yay for the canine friends!
Am flat bound here-miss the growing up years in B'lore with all sorts of dogs/ snakes/ rabbits as pets.
The israeli army has a unit which runs 'War Dogs' with specially trained handlers and their deep penetration special forces units are prepared for sentry dogs with silenced weapons-mandatory carry I believe.
I'm glad no one mentioned stun guns on this issue
Best
Axx

[Vikram]

Damn, I missed this debate. Another "Aye" for the canine companions. A well trained Alsatian,Doberman or a Rottweiler are the best guard dogs you can get. Teddy bears with the kids and friends and pure fiends against hostile intruders. My uncle's Doberman Shanker was a magnificent beast. He used to weather all the torment the visiting kids used to inflict on him.And, once a fool made the mistake of raising his hand against my uncle while on his evening walk.Shanker didn't even give a warning as he tucked into the offender. One word from my uncle was all it took to switch off the attack mode. He died within a few months of the untimely death of my beloved uncle.And Shanker was in his prime.He died of utter heart break. He simply didn't have the will to live without my uncle who cared for him as if he were his child. This is the kind of devotion dogs have to their often unworthy human friends. Sorry folks, dogs always evoke the mushiest of sentiments in me.

I trust the instincts of a dog, except the world's most fearsome biscuit hound "Dirty Dogg" who needs to be woken up everyday morning from under my dad's bed" to mine any day . I wish to get a Dogo or a APBT or a Rotty.A teddy+tiger it shall be.

With my 'Defense'...Not everybody can take that ball from him

You mean after he got the intruder's b@!!$? He is a magnificent beast.Very handsome.Wots his name, if I might ask?

Best- Vikram

[Ranjeet Singh]

Hey Vikram,

He's called Bruno, He is a German Shepherd, about 2 and half years old now. I must say he is my father's dog..for my father feeds him, takes him for walks...and of course Bruno listens to him the most..

Bruno bares his teeth, even to my mom, if she tries to wake my father and bruno is around...

My job keeps me away from home for long periods..Bruno has to completely sniff me out before he lets me in...each time I come back

[Sakobav]

Dogs need not be of famous pedigree. My uncle?s village mutt Tiger, was something else, would attack any one trying to jostle house members, sound of un-cocking of air gun or sight of gun meant going into the field for doves or anything, loved to fetch the birds but then it was a game for him to have us wrestle it from him, hated bikers and any moving tires of cars etc, grew up with a cat, some how picked up the trick of climbing low hanging limbs and scaling walls,. This mutt was so smart that all those nice breed dogs we send to village looked dugs compared to him and were discarded after name branding , dobermann was ? lundy? funky bixchy tail less looking dog, no brains, too skinny for winters moody with sharp needle teeth, Labrador was a glutton ? Kumbkaran? or ? maj ? buffalo? who just loved to eat and sleep nothing more than a door stopper, servants had a bet and this bug*3r ate anything they fed all day and worst was for German shepherd ? khota? ( donkey) with a drooping tail. . These so called elite dogs were summarily dispatched to the farm on the river, even without our permission who paid or begged for them from friends in lieu of favors. Sturdy as a bull and even killed our neighbors ferocious boxer. I remember the CRPF guards stationed at my uncles house used to look for him at night. He became a local folk lore, when a demented person was duped in leaving a sack behind my uncles house on a pretence of an IED. He not only nailed the guy but woke up the guards and every one else.
These breeds also required vet visits for one or the other reason and only time Tiger needed one was when yours truly tried to cure him of his ticks by bathing him with lotion / dosage meant for buffaloes. He was nearly poisoned by me and that was the last time they allowed city slicker like me near the guns, bullets ( .22 is rim fire and it fires if dropped on its rims) or dogs. Even Tiger had a frosty relationship with me from there on..may he rest in peace. It the training that matters in the end and time spend with the dogs.

may be we should start a thread for gun dogs etc

[mehulkamdar]

Gentlemen,

Permit me to cast a dissenting vote on the efficacy of dogs as home defence options. A reasonably strong man with a largish knife can make short work of any dog ever born. In the old days, packs of dogs were let loose on intruders and the idea was that they would overwhelm the intruders and slow their entry into castles or onto farms. These days, habving packs of savage dogs run around a property is not only impossibly unpractical, it is also something that Joe/Jagadish/Jahangir average is never going to be able to afford.

At best a dog can be an early warning kind of four legged friend cum alarm, perhaps, he could help restrain a burglar whom you first attack and knock down. But if a determined man wants to get past a dog and he has even a knife, he will do it. I agree with Navdeep that mongrels are very intelligent for this purpose and they also have a hardiness and resistance to disease that many of the European breeds do not have in India. Traditional Indian breeds are almost all hounds and not guard dogs and I have always wondered why no one has bothered to selectively cross Indian dogs with Western breeds to develop good hybrids that have the best characteristics of both types. The Nawabs of Rampur crossed several breeds but then they only developed what is, perhaps the best hound suited for India - none of the royal houses in India developed a basically Indian guard dog, an "Indian Shepherd" or similar.

Over the years I have ad several fine four legged friends including a Dalmatian, a Dachshund, a Collie, a Cocker Spaniel, a Rottweiler mix and my present little Tibetan Terrier whom we brought with us to the USA when we moved here. I never intended any of my dogs to get hurt if there was anything untoward that happened - they were only to warn if some intruder came in. A gun would take care of matters if things got violent.

My congratulations to Ranjeet on a particularly fine dog. He seems very happy playing with him - these are the kinds of friendships between man and dog that make the experience of having a dog one of the greatest things possible.

Cheers,

Mehul

[Ranjeet Singh]

I couldn't agree more with Mehul that a large man with a knife could very easily get through any dog. It might be a little difficult if you have a 'schutzhund' trained dog - (those unfamilar with the term- schutz is german for protection- for more there is always google:)

Having said that, I would also would like to point out that any human being has a 'primal' fear of a large animal.

As we always see at our house, whenever a friend comes in, even when the dog is being friendly and just sniffing..they are put into the shock mode..they just freeze..I would do the same if a large dog sniffs me:)

The only advantage with an animal is when he gets into a fight mode...and you can't put him into flee mode(by a unexpected sound or something)..he is gonna come after you till his last breadth, knife or not..

And with humans with superior intelligence, we have fight, wait(caution- he's got a knife) and flee mode..Dogs don't have that, its fight or flee..

And about Indian breeds, as Mehul points out- There is the famous Modhul Hound and in south Rajapalayam..both are sight hounds..You get to see them quite often at the Bangalore Dog show..its in Jan every year..

I have still a long way to go to learn about pack behaviour and training dogs..my father is much better at that..I'll pick up soon..

But all said and done, our dog is for company and just telling us that the post has arrived..I don't expect him to keep burglars away..

And yeah he is a great company..always good to come home to a very happy dog with a ball waiting for someone to paly with him:)

pls..excuse the longish post