.32 NOT a manstopper!

[eljefe]

I've seen a humane killer in 22 for equine use.Contact range use. Pole axed got me an entirely new meaning after that.

[Grumpy]

Yes.....although the operators must know exactly how and where to use them because I`ve seen plenty of pictures of x-rays of people who have a bullet - usually a .22rf - lodged in their brain yet have recovered completely.

[Grumpy]

By the way, Col Geoff Coopers take on the matter was as follows:

"From a correspondent in South Africa comes yet another case of faulty stopping power, but this time with a handgun. Our friend was dozing in front of the televisor when suddenly he opened one eye to behold an intruder standing in front of him, raised knife in hand. The pistol, a 380 self-loader, was within reach and our friend fired one shot, which took his assailant in the upper chest. No result. The two men then grappled, and while the knife was blocked the pistol was emptied into the torso of the attacker, who finally fell down.

Moral: If you choose to use a minor-caliber handgun remember that your only quick stop area is that of the eye sockets."

The .380 - also known as the 9mm Short - is a more powerful cartridge than the .32.

Col Coopers opinion on the 9mm Parabellum being adopted by the US Military was - and is - barely printable !

[mehulkamdar]

I agree completely with Asif on the "doctor" who is supposed to have shot his 45 into the air - the moron sounds like a tree surgeon working at an illegal marijuana plantation, considering his stupidity. If he was being attacked, why did the idiot try to fire in the air instead of at his attackers?

BTW, AC, you do seem to come up with some perfectly apocryphal anti gun type bunk on these forums whenever a self defence or RKBA issue comes up. I do wonder where you go looking for this kind of stuff, or, indeed, if that is what you seem determined to do.

Grumpy,

The Spetsnaz used Izhmash and Vostock 22 rifles with silencers at the siege of Grozny. From what I have heard, they were told to take head shots from behind ONLY and the experience led the Russians to develop their current 9x39 subsonic round on the old AK case. With the French using the SSK Industried developed "Whisper" rounds in addition to the US Special Forces using them, we may yet see some standardisation in military subsonic rounds in the future.

[art_collector]

Hi Mehul,

This was a PM which just went to a wrong address. I normally review my posts before I post them and half way through when I wanted to preview it due to an over sight pressed submit so what u and others read was simply the incomplete message .

I realised the mistake immediately after the post was sent and did post that there was an error. Since the message was incomplete it conveyed a wrong message. .
The doc always regretted that he did not fire in self defence and was also told the same thing when the pistol was eventually recovered. For some strange reasons he still does carry both the things together.

AC

[eljefe]

HAd a 24 yr old in the ER, who had an entry wound on R temple and exit near Left jaw-small caliber, no expansion.Not only did he walk out, but by some great stroke of luck, his vision was spared-the bullet must have passed within mm of his optic nerve junction.
Incredibly true.The cal was 22

[mehulkamdar]

For some strange reasons he still does carry both the things together.

AC

Which convinces me that the character is insane. He had better learn to shoot his pistol properly in defensive situations. There are scores of coaching places in the US that he could sign up with.

[Grumpy]

The Russians had developed - and were using - `silent` subsonic well before the Chechin war and have semi-auto assault rifles using the contained piston ammunition.......I`m damned if I can figure out how the rifles operate though. I know of no .22 silenced/subsonic being used by Russian special forces at Grozny - or anywhere else - although there were reports of them being used by Chechin snipers against the Russian forces.

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

I did a quick Google search and found this: http://world.guns.ru/ammo/sp-e.htm

and this http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html

Quote [I would mislead readers if I'd say that sniper rifles in .22LR has never been in practice. I was told by Vietnam veterans that Viet Cong fighters used old TOZ 5.6 mm plinkers as weapons of close combat and sniper rifles successfully deployed in towns. Similar reports I had from the snipers who took part in the actions in Chechnya: Standard hunting .22LR "Sobol" rifles were used in the "snipers' war" in Grozniy. Smart guys, they used plastic bottles with tiny holes in the bottom and attached to rifle's muzzle as silencers! They said, such rifles were compact, accurate at close ranges. Fired from internal premises (a room, a hideout, etc.) small-caliber rifles produced very low sound blast that could hardly be heard at a distance of over 100 meters. Their "quietness" and accuracy was the important factor that made "fly killers" so effective as an anti-personnel weapon. I remember, one sniper was saying: - If a target is closer than 100 meters, You don't have to defeat a ballistic jacket. An exposed neck, face or head is just enough! And the gun is so "quiet"... ] End Quote

[Grumpy]

Yes, Mehul. Those `Standard hunting .22LR "Sobol" rifles` were used by the Chechins, not the Russian forces. A Russian general is reported to have been shot with one.....although whether that is actually true I have no idea.
The Russian troops had no need to resort to .22lr hunting rifles with plastic bottle silencers - as far as the Chechins were concerned it was a case of `needs must`.
Maxim Popenker is the standard text for Russian/Soviet Union covert weaponry. He makes no mention of a silenced .22 however. The 5.45x18 MPT mentioned was not a silenced round but a chambering for a personal defence pistol.
The last I heard was that the SV-99 was being developed as a sporting rifle. As far as I know it was never submitted for adoption by the Russian armed forces and I very much doubt that it would have been treated as anything other than a joke. The `developement` of a silenced .22 rf rifle is pointless anyway because they are in constant daily use by British shooters - a 22 subsonic round used with a moderator makes less noise than an air rifle. Try selling a .22 rimfire rifle here that isn`t threaded for a moderator and you`ll have a long wait. There are several different .22 rf moderators available and even Eley make subsonic .22 LR ammunition.............there must be at least a couple of hundred rounds in my ammo safe.
A silent .22 rimfire rifle doesn`t need developing because they are a commonplace fact.

[penpusher]

Since we Indians are forced to use .32 ACP pistols as this is the only centre fire pistol for which ammo. is available at reasonable(by Indian standards) rates, would this ammo. make it a bit more useful ? http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore ... art_id=134

penpusher

[Grumpy]

Nasty...........Somehow I can`t see the Indian courts being too thrilled about the use of this ammo.

[mundaire]

penpusher,

Grumpy's remark makes me curious... do courts in India penalise the use of certain "types" of ammunition? Something along the lines of the rule that crimes committed with PB guns attract stiffer sentences?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[penpusher]

penpusher,

Grumpy's remark makes me curious... do courts in India penalise the use of certain "types" of ammunition? Something along the lines of the rule that crimes committed with PB guns attract stiffer sentences?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

To answer your questionAbhijeet,thankfully no.

penpusher

[Risala]

penpusher,

That EPR ammo looks lethal,can one import the same in person for .32 ACP,or are imports banned as it is a fragmentable projectile.

Thanks

Sanjay