Empty chamber carry !!!

[mundaire]

If this is the same Agra incident, then IIRC the shopkeeper's pistol was a Browning .32 cal semi-auto. He seems to be racking the slide twice, but I don't think he got off any shots, as the slide wasn't being cycled properly and he wasn't able to properly chamber the round - due to (I assume) little/ no practice (in the use of his firearm) by the owner.

[Subal das]

don't forget about knife attacks. that can be very helpful to try draw and shoot exercise against knife attacker

here is Pekiti Tirsia Kali - Knife vs Gun video

you can see that guys with a gun do not have a chance to survive against knife attack from great distances.

[youtube][/youtube]

[ssmickey.32]

I carry my revolver loaded on all the chambers. My revolver is Smith & Wesson .32 Regulation Police model made in 1983 and has that Hammer Block safety feature.

In this Safety feature [for double action Revolvers], there is a hammer block that is placed in between the firing pin and the cartridge - creating a gap.... so if ALL the chambers are loaded, you are safe as the firing pin cannot touch the cartridge. When the trigger is pulled, this hammer block goes out of way / moves sideways and the firing pin strikes the cartridge resulting in discharge.

Yes! my fully loaded Revolver fell twice - both the times on same issue - that my local make IWB holster was not having that retention strap. Later, I got specially stitched and incorporated in my IWB holster.. eversince it's okay. I thanked the designers of Hammer block Safety feature both the times. I felt very bad after it fell.

As for children, i think it is better to gun proof your children. I have explained my children that I carry for my / their safety & security.... that I do not want to harm anyone but at the same time if there is any one to harm us - it will be used very wisely asap. When I had purchased the revolver, my children wanted to hold it, feel it which I handed over unloaded under my supervision. I have two daughters... so not much of issues. Inspite of every thing, I also make sure it is kept safely.

Best regards

ssmickey.32

[nagarifle]

you can see that guys with a gun do not have a chance to survive against knife attack from great distances.

too true, lets reverse this, your knife is in its sheath, ten feet away some mad guy with full auto points at you and empties the whole clip into you.

conclusion knife does not work against a gun.

lets look at the scenario on your tube, man with knife was ready, he had a target,
the other man with the gun holstered was not.

so lets be fair around, ten feet apart, man with knife fully on guard, man with gun fully loaded and pointing at the man with knife. what would be the out come?

knife has its place, but in a gun fight it is not the supreme weapon.
lets take a look at the clip, you will see young men, fighting fit, hours of training etc.

lets go back in history, Japan, a nation of sword wallahs, now they carry firearms. but they have equal respect for both.

conclusion then is:
both have a right full place,
with knife how do you train a 50 year old person in use? with a gun it can be done.
in combat the distance does play a major part. only at close quarter can be knife and unarmed combat takes place. knife is useless if man is armed and ready to fire and kill at 10feet.

knife is very useful once personal contact is made.

[eljefe]

Massad Ayoob has some interesting things to say about knife vs gun and IIRC knives are included in his training seminars
To reiterate,The hammer down on empty chamber was because of the early hammer designs, which was corrected with the transfer bar.As A member has stated above, a well made revolver with transfer bar should be safe. As for a pistol If I have to carry, it would be DA- one up the spout, hammer down, safety OFF-the DA is a good enough safety. In SA-locked and cocked.
That video should be an anthem for IFG as to how the 25 rounds per year policy , and the general approach to gun owners in India,is about as helpful as refried sin

[goodboy_mentor]

That video should be an anthem for IFG as to how the 25 rounds per year policy , and the general approach to gun owners in India,is about as helpful as refried sin

I fully and completely agree.

[marksman]

Empty chamber under the FP is an Old West concept meant for S.A. revolvers of that era that had simple but very rugged mechanism. Most of the D.A. revolvers that I have seen and used have the inbuilt feature where the hammer does not go fully forward unless the trigger is fully pressed. This is irrespective of a hammer mounted or a frame mounted FP. This safety exists in Colt, as well as in all Webley & Scott revolvers. The Walther PPs and it's family too have this feature. The newer S&W revolvers have frame mounted FPs but the hammer travel is controlled and restricted in the same manner never the less. I say this with authority as I personally examined a Colt Diamondback, a S&W mod.18 and a Walther PPK/S before writing this. IMHO, A modern revolver with all chambers loaded with no safety engaged is a much better bet then a pistol, the action of which is pretty complicated by the very virtue of it's design for some one who is not a gun nut well versed with this drill..One just has to to mentally condition the colleagues to accept the idea of a loaded gun I guess.
Marksman

[james]

I trust my life on s&w snub nose .32 revolver fully six rounds loaded all the time with 2 speed loader for reloading. The safety feature in iof revolver totally defeat the purpose of carring revolver. It tends to complicate the process under stress situation. The biggest advantage of revolver is simplicity i.e draw point and shoot .
Pistol is totally depended on cartridge quality for loading followup round and whatever Pistol is avaliable in market is more than 3 decades old.
New iof pistol is more than a year waiting and being outdated design not safe to carry cocked and locked, even with new iof pistol it is difficult to rack under stress situation.
Under situation in video Revolver without safety is best as per my experience ,as for first 6 shots nothing is better than revolver .[backup weapon is always better to carry if there is a possible threat]
Regards,
James..

[Big Gay Al]

I carry my 1911 condition 1 but with the hammer decocked.

I hate to tell you this, but that's not condition 1. True condition 1 carry for a 1911 is quite simply, cocked and locked. Hammer back, round in the chamber, and thumb safety on.

You are describing condition 2. Which is chamber loaded and hammer down. In this condition, you cannot normally engage the thumb safety.

Condition 3 is empty chamber, hammer down, probably the least ready of the three conditions.

-- Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:16 pm --

With regard to carrying a revolver, if it's a revolver of modern manufacture, it should use some sort of transfer bar or other type of built in safety that keeps the firing pin off the cartridge. In my humble opinion, there is no need to carry a modern revolver with an empty chamber. And the only reason I could think of to carry one with the next chamber empty was in case the wrong person got hold of it, to give you time to react and take it back or take cover.

-- Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:19 pm --

Empty chamber under the FP is an Old West concept meant for S.A. revolvers of that era that had simple but very rugged mechanism. Most of the D.A. revolvers that I have seen and used have the inbuilt feature where the hammer does not go fully forward unless the trigger is fully pressed. This is irrespective of a hammer mounted or a frame mounted FP. This safety exists in Colt, as well as in all Webley & Scott revolvers. The Walther PPs and it's family too have this feature. The newer S&W revolvers have frame mounted FPs but the hammer travel is controlled and restricted in the same manner never the less. I say this with authority as I personally examined a Colt Diamondback, a S&W mod.18 and a Walther PPK/S before writing this. IMHO, A modern revolver with all chambers loaded with no safety engaged is a much better bet then a pistol, the action of which is pretty complicated by the very virtue of it's design for some one who is not a gun nut well versed with this drill..One just has to to mentally condition the colleagues to accept the idea of a loaded gun I guess.
Marksman

Unless you're using a Glock. Shooting a Glock is a lot like shooting a revolver. No safety to disengage, as the "safety" device is on the trigger. Which in my opinion is a silly place to put the safety. But what do I know.

-- Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:23 pm --

don't forget about knife attacks. that can be very helpful to try draw and shoot exercise against knife attacker

here is Pekiti Tirsia Kali - Knife vs Gun video

you can see that guys with a gun do not have a chance to survive against knife attack from great distances.

Depends on your definition of "great distances." Mine is anything more than 50 meters. The guys in the video couldn't have been more than 20 feet apart. Anyone with a knife within that distance, is a serious threat.

[TwoRivers]

CC: Not at all like the M1911 mechanism in miniature. The one is a simple blowback, the other locked and recoil operated. The one is striker fired, the other has a hammer.

[eljefe]

@ Subal- wrt Silat and other martial arts, and people who practice 'Regularly' its a different ball game. I have found people with a martial arts background to be more aware of their surroundings.at all times. And for the knife Vs Gun, -a bloke with a knife , coming at me, would have my undivided attention.If i dont go into mental lock down, I hope i can atleast bl***y run!

[Subal das]

@ Subal- wrt Silat and other martial arts, and people who practice 'Regularly' its a different ball game. I have found people with a martial arts background to be more aware of their surroundings.at all times. And for the knife Vs Gun, -a bloke with a knife , coming at me, would have my undivided attention.If i dont go into mental lock down, I hope i can atleast bl***y run!

you are right ... increase distance immediately between you and a guy with a knife, that what you should do.

great eskrima master late Mangisursuro Mike G. Inay made testing with Dutch police on from what distance it is possible to make a shot from a gun like Glock with loaded chamber and from open holster.

Result may looks surprising from 6 m it is not possible to make shot, from 8 m it impossible to make 1-2 shots but still guy with a gun will get cut.

thing is that a lot of police mans killed by knife every year around the world, because they only rely on guns in their defense. imo If you carry a gun - YOU MUST have a skills of empty hand defense against knife.

here is this DVD
Reactive Knife Defense System (DVD)
https://www.martialmarketing.com/store. ... how_detail

[Risala]

..One just has to to mentally condition the colleagues to accept the idea of a loaded gun I guess.
Marksman

That would be the way to go....though a fairly large % of handgun owners in our parts are apprehensive about it...guess it comes down to how comfortable one is with his or her fire arm.....little practice would help

[Big Gay Al]

I think it also depends on how reliable your pistol is. If I owned a pistol, and I was uncertain as to the quality and reliablity, I would likely either not load it at all or if it was all I had, I'd carry with the chamber empty.