Rechambering 7.9 werke mauser to 8mm?

[amjadkarim16]

Hi,
I have 7.9mm werke mauser 1937 make.Will post pics of markings.I spoke to an eminent IFGian,he said that in WW 2 era all bores around 8mm i.e;7.9 and 7.92 were considered as 8mm but I am not convinced.I have 7.9 cartridge,will post its drawing with dimensions and I searched drawing of 8mm cartridge as well and there is a difference.Please advise.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Amjad,

The rifle that you have would chamber and fire the 8x57 cartridge.That was the standard German service caliber.Whatever you do will only ruin the rifle.Don't monkey around with it.

[amjadkarim16]

Hi,
I am not able to get 7.92x57mm cartridges anywhere that is why this option was suggested by an IFGian.I asked my uncle and he categorically declined the idea but I cant see my hard earned bucks going down the drain.
I ask again can i fire 8x57mm from this rifle.
Uncle said even if rechambering is done but barrel also needs 4000 machining and then grooving.
Some say it can be done.please advise.
regards amjad

[Vikram]

Hi,
I am not able to get 7.92x57mm cartridges anywhere that is why this option was suggested by an IFGian.I asked my uncle and he categorically declined the idea but I cant see my hard earned bucks going down the drain.
I ask again can i fire 8x57mm from this rifle.
Uncle said even if rechambering is done but barrel also needs 4000 machining and then grooving.
Some say it can be done.please advise.
regards amjad

Amjad you were cautioned before you bought this rifle.

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 380#p87380

"The rifle may be in good nick.But, is the ammo for 7.92 easily available in India?Also, how old is the ammo you will be getting? What will you do if no fresh ammo is available? What price are you quoted for this rifle? Is it a sporter/civilian version or a straight jacket military surplus rifle? Please remember that the 7.92X57 is also known as 8X57IS( 8.2 mm or.323 inches) ). Make sure you are not given the .315 IOF cartridges which is also an 8mm (8.25 mm).It would really help if you can post a few photos of the rifle and the ammo(especially markings).Otherwise, it's a pointless exercise."

There are a few issues you need to seriously consider:

1. Is converting the rifle to another calibre legal?--I do not think so.Needs verification.

2.Though the 8X57 is technically 8mm, the size is 8.2 mm or.323 inches. The IOF made 8mm/.315 (8X50R) is of 8.25mm diameter.They are not inter-changeable.I also have doubts about the rifle's ability to handle the rimmed cartridge of .315. Remember the 8X57 is a rimless cartridge.I have my doubts about the chamber pressures too.

3.Is it worth it? To rechamber an old rifle and risk so many things including your health?The risk of losing your life and limb is a serious consideration especially if you do not know what kind of modifications will be done it and their quality.

My suggestion-bite the proverbial bullet and get rid of it.Or keep sourcing original calibre bullets wherever you can,legally of course.

Best-
Vikram

[CZHarry]

Your description of this gun is not very clear at all, however, if it has the Nazi markings, then it is more than likely the "S" cartridge, which is .323" and not the obsolete .318" bullet.

I quote, in part, from the book, "Small Arms of the World".
"7.92mm & its Variations".
"The rifle Gewehr 98 as produced in Germany, the 7.92mm model 98 had the smaller .318 bore of the Model 88 rifle. In 1903 the rifles were altered to use the larger .323 diameter "S" bullet."
Model GEW 88 (marked 1891) were modified to use the .323 diameter bullet". These guns have an "S" stamped on the top of the receiver.

So, in other words, it more than likely uses the standard German 8mm cartridge for WWII.

[MoA]

Your 1937 Mauser has a .323 bore, i.e. 8mm. So you can safely shoot the 8x57 ammo in it.
Just dont try to do any alterations. You can thank the Americans for all the confusion. Post WWII they decided 7.92 was too difficult to keep track off so they designated it 8MM Mauser.

[Vikram]

MoA, we are not clear if he is talking about the 8X57 or the IOF .315/8mm (8X50R). I have a suspicion that it's the latter that he is talking about converting to.

Can anyone tell if the 8X57 Mauser cartridge is available easily?Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

[TwoRivers]

Amjad: Your rifle, if a military M98 Mauser rifle, is an 8x57mm Mauser, aka 8x57 S, aka 8x57 IS. The military designation became 7.92mm after WW1, according to the actual median bore diameter of 7.92 mm, or .312". You can safely fire any 8x57 sporting or military round in it. If you are thinking of converting it to the .315 India, that can be done, but not easily. The action work required calls for a 'smith with experience in this kind of work, and the cost would be prohibitive.

If you have any doubt as to what rifle you have, post a pic for positive identification.

Cheers.

[amjadkarim16]

hi,
will write back in ten minutes with pics

-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:57 pm --

hi,
will post more.
I have original cartridges FN 55. I am not talking about conversion to .315 Indian format but am talking about 8x57mm mauser.
Am not able to see S marking anywhere.
Suggest me where should I look.
Posting more
Regards
amjad

-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:01 pm --

hi,

Tell me what else shall I post.
And I spoke tp Mr Bobby Siddhu,he said 8x57mm are available thought bit costly but available.
Regards
amjad

[winnie_the_pooh]

Good god,looks like you dragged it out of the Dal lake.Would not want to behind that thing when the trigger is pulled.I thought you said that it was in very good condition.

[sa_ali]

Bro
If i were u, i wont even try firing that heavy bullet in a gun in this state. Corrosion seems to have literally take of lawyers of metal. . Is the bolt action working smoothly

[eljefe]

Amjad, as tworivers said!
condition? About par for the course.
what did you pay for it? about 75-120K? Does look a bit hammered, normal for most military Mausers I've seen in India.If the action is sound and the barrel ok, I guess it needs a major makeover and lots of painstaking work to make it into a 'shooter' from its current state...Who will do this for you?
I dont suggest you think of rechambering it-the 30-06 may be done, but needs a new barrel and action will have to be checked out.Those are strong rifles/barrels and actions, but going by the state it appears in the picture, and the very limited facilities available, i would not do anything more than restore it and bring it to full functionality.Yes, you will have to pay a high price for the ammo

[amjadkarim16]

hi,
Dont go by the paint.As I have already written that rifle is in good shape.It is.Bolt action is smooth.Barrel is shining as fresh.And only I know why it looks like this from outside.I think i will just now post its pictures with bolt removed so that you have a look at it from inside.I know it is in good shape.And I paid 1000ks for it but an offer of 1500ks is waiting from the day I bought it.He calls me every week that will I sell it.
I am posting pics in a moment.So please stay back and revert.Thanks in advance.
one more thing can I for sure fire 8x57mm in it.

I have myself fired it 6 months back with the same cartridge and i did not aim and fire but just held it and shot at the mountain across the river i would say approx.1200m to 1500m and i saw dust from the rocks.
Regards
amjad

-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:05 pm --



-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:06 pm --



-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:08 pm --



-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:19 pm --

hi,
Regarding makeover.If I dont get the ammo and I decide to sell it then I will sell it in the same shape but If I got ammo and it takes 8x57mm then I will post its pics say after 3 months> i will do it.Will get new walnut stock and handpiece single piece.I have a walnut 5x10 inches and 6 ft long. Rest just hand filing indeed and then browning. Rest as eljefe said accurately about the condition as if he has seen it.
If I tell you the sory behind this rifle you will get amazed as to how this rifle survived.
Anyways next time but please keep suggesting and information about 8x57mm.
An IFGian is coming to jammu and feb.I will make him look at it and if possible he will bring a 8x57mm shell with him.We can atleast be sure about the chamber.
Regards
amjad
But honestly speaking all posts were encouraging and so so infpormative.
I think how much people know.
My next post will be Karbiner .30 if you want and then a 90yr old spainish single barrel and in perfetct shape.
Also 30-06.
Waiting for a Digital camera.

-- Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:20 pm --

Good god,looks like you dragged it out of the Dal lake.Would not want to behind that thing when the trigger is pulled.I thought you said that it was in very good condition.

you are almost right that I dragged it from Dul.
It was not Dul but a place much worse than that.
regards
amjad

[CZHarry]

What you have is a good example, although in very rough condition, of a WWII Nazi marked Mauser. It uses the 'modern' 8x57 "S" bullet (.323 diameter). There will more than likely be no "S" stamp, since it is more modern than its WWI counterparts, which were converted after 1902. The Nazi proof marks prove that it would use the more modern cartridge, because that is what the German gov't. used during that time.
To a collector, this rifle would have a very high value as a collector's piece, if left untouched in its original condition. Having said that, what I mean as "high value" is not so much in money as it is, rich in history.
The very instant that this rifle is "modernized" or "improved" will make it useless as a significant piece of history. Right now, it is valuable as a part of history.
My first thought is that collectors of WWII memorabilia are not very plentiful in India, or if they exist, you don't know about them. My second thought is that because of the insanely high prices of firearms, collecting is not a very popular pastime. As we usually say, "It's your rifle, do what you want.", but collectors all over the world just got a mysterious twinge in their stomachs.

I googled some info that you gave about this weapon, though the detailed information needed was not produced by you. Not your fault because you're not a collector. I found this little bit of info, but maybe with this, it would allow you to google and look for the exact details of your particular purchase.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/fl ... /index.asp

After you do a little research, maybe you could sell it to the person that wants to buy it for a bit of a premium (profit for you) because of its history with the Third Reich.

(edit to add:)
See, I learn more every day, even if I have no particular interest in Mausers (but I do have a Turk Mauser & an old 1891 Gew-88).
Basically, with some research, after 1905, the bores are are upgraded to shoot the .323 "S" military bullet.
Military ammo creates higher chamber pressures than commercial ammo.
Commercial hunting loads, especially those with bullet diameters of .321 are safer to shoot in old Mausers, but .323 will work too.
The size designation called 7.9 (or 7.92) is actually used for the new cartridge, which is called 8mm now (but it's technically incorrect).

http://wapedia.mobi/en/7.92x57mm_Mauser

[TwoRivers]

Amjad: What you have is a K98 Mauser, or Mauser "Standard" model, made for the Portuguese government by Mauser before WWII, but taken over by the German government before it got delivered to the Portuguese. About as good a K98 Mauser as you can find, of pre-war quality. Civilian cartridge designation: 8x57S, or 8x57IS, aka "8mm Mauser".
There will be no "S" marked on it. Never on a K98. That mark appears only on M88 Commission (not a Mauser) rifles with sights converted for the "S" cartridge.
There is no rifle, and its cartridge, about which more nonsense has been written by American writers. Though with rediscovery of the Russian M91, that rifle is starting to catch up in that department.
To sum up, you have one of the best K98 Mausers ever made; and except for surface condition it seems entirely safe and serviceable. Enjoy it! To a Mauser collector, and in better surface condition, it would be a prize. Cheers.