Indians For Guns

Just back from a long holiday in the hills.Checked out the IOF 315 rifle and ammo and here is what I found:-

1.The 315 cartridge is not an invention of the IOF.I would not like to name the cartridge that they have copied.Somebody just might try to shoot the IOF ammo in the rifle for that cartridge.The cartridge is dimmensionally the same as the IOF 315 cartridge.What I have been able to find about the cartridge that forms the basis of the IOF 315 cart. is :-

i)It fires a 244 grn bullet at about 1980 fps

ii)The long shaft is used to stabilise the bullet in the barrel

iii)Bullet has almost a parabolic trajectory

2)The 315 bullet itself is poorly constructed.The copper jacket is too thin , not properly fused with the lead core and has a tendency to seperate.That probably accounts for the copper jacket tearing off and lodging in the barrel.

3)The older cartridges were also poorly constructed.The bullets are not seated properly and mostly tilt in one direction.The neck of the cart is also not evenly sloping.Fresh ammo is however better constructed.The case necks are annealed.

4)Ammo was earlier loaded with cordite.Fresh ammo uses some sort of powder.

5) The primers are highly corrosive.The best way to clean the rifle is to pass hot water through the barrel after even a single round having been fired.So for this reason would not recommend buying a rifle second hand.

6)The barrels are well constructed.

7)The action is smooth (if you choose your rifle correctly)

8)The factory sights are totally useless.

9)The stock is rudimentary to say the least.

As I have said ,the fresh ammo is better than what was being manufactured earlier.A friend tried it out and gave a good report about its performance.


Take care,
penpusher

Thanks penpusher,
We were beginning to miss you!Hope it was a good trip .
That was a good one about the 315 IOF.Kind of helps confirm my doubts that who ever designed that cartridge, was certainly missing significant grey matter, especially in the ballistics dept-forget the BC and SD...whatever the original concept or design, bad reverse engineering...

A bullet like that ( i call it 'tug-boat-annie ' shape!) shouldnt logically be used for terrestrial use-like the case of the bumble bee, someone forget to tell it that its not aerodynamic??!
Enough and more kills have been chalked up to the 315, my father had a nasty experience with it on a bison about 40 years ago,and had to use the 450/400 for the finale.I have heard that cartridge being bad mouthed from as far back as I can remember, from a great ,vast majority of 'shootists' I know/met.
Goes to show what the babus in the Govt know/care about the aesthetics and gun considerations of the rest of us aam janta.And they want to send a rocket to the moon...
best
Axx

penpusher,

Thanks for the post. The only comment that I have to make is that the Lee Enfield action that the IOF 315 is based on is known to be an incredibly smooth action to operate by it's very design. There is a reason the British were able to let off fire vastly faster than any other army in the world with boltguns and history has several instances of British rapid fire techniques beating the must more highly regarded (by sportsmen, that is) Mausers especially at Mons in WW-1. Today, even in the land of Mauser fanatics, the USA, it is accepted that the Enfield was the best battle bolt rifle ever made.

If the IOF screws some rifles up with rough bolt operation, then they have made a mess of what was basically one of the finest actions in the world.

Mehul

PS A member here is about to buy a beautiful Enfield sporter from correspndence I have had with him. I shall let him post about it - this is just to get him to post over here about his planned purchase.

Mehul,
The Mons firepower will never be matched ever, Enfield rules, and I am a big time fan of the smellie.
Its the fact that this ill designed abortion like the 315 was mated with a fine rifle like the smellie gets my goat.
Having shot many 1000's of rounds in the original 303, led to becoming such a fan of the cartridge and rifle-never mind what CUP the 303 generated (and the front locker gang will moan about the inherent danger of rear lockers till the cows come home, I guess.)Oh yes, I did cut off the nose, exposed the brass of quite a few rounds-in ignorance then-in abject terror now- and had them sail happily down range-the action was forgiving of an idiot like me!

Will be great to hear from the enfield sporter buyer about caliber, stock, accuracy etc.please post away.
Best
Axx

Asif,

I agree with you completely on the merits of the Smellie and also later versions like the No 4 and the No 5 Jungle carbine. My old shooting buddy in Appleton, Wayne Nitz has a safe full of fine Enfields and he loves them. The one good thing is that the front locking obsession over here has meant that the Enfields sell cheap - a good thing if you want to buy them in the USA. Also the British themselves have decided to neglect the Enfield action for some reason - they need to look at it closer now. The only top gunsmith in the world who regularly does projects on the Enfield action is Philipp Ollendorf http://www.jagdwaffen-ollendorff.com/ and his creations are incredible.

The Enfield in question is a 303 - a beautiful one and I hope the member concerned posts here soon. This is a hint to him to hurry up. I guess he is giddy with anticipation - kind of like getting a date with Keira Knightley followed by a honeymoon with her.

The rifle is supremely beautiful - I have pics but will let him post and shw his girl off.

Cheers,

Mehul

Gentlemen, it?s none other than but yours humbly, Mega Me. Mehul, you, you teaser! LOL. I agree with all of you about the Enfield action. I shot thousands of .303 while I was in NCC. As I was a fav of our JCOs, I used to shoot in every detail. Later, when I was selected for the competitions, I used to shoot a lot of them during the entire season and I represented AP in advanced rifle shooting. Won a gold at the state level and missed it narrowly at the Nationals.

Re the Enfield in question, it?s a BSA sporter, beautifully made and, when last checked, was quoted at ?575. The rifle looks so good that I, without single moment of hesitation decided to use a major chunk of the blood and sweat I put into my part time job.





But alas, recently, I am beleaguered with a lot of demands from my tutor to submit the first draft of my Masters dissertation, of which I haven?t done a bit about so far. I allowed it to slip from my mind for a few days. And as I checked about it recently, to my utter horror, I found it withdrawn from the website. Gentlemen, I am still trying to trace the seller and initiate negotiations. I hope that beauty is not sold. You really don?t know how hard I am kicking myself for my tardiness.

Damn, the pics wouldn't get bigger.Tried hard with photobucket.Resized etc. Mehul, if you have the pics I sent and can post them in original size, can you please do it for me? Thank you very much.

Best- Vikram

Vikram you lucky blighter!
God Bless and may you have a great time shooting that great weapon.
I checked out philippe's site and the wood blew me away.Great cast and finish-Cant comment on the drop at heel or comb height-but something like that is waht i want to spend the rest of my life with..Yes, i promise not to run amok!!
Enjoy
Axx

Saw a similar rifle at a gunshop at Patiala.Don't remember the manufacturer but do remember that it was a proper sporter and not a converted military rifle.Here the price for it would not be more than 15,000/- it being a prohibited bore.

India is a crazy place.Such a rifle for about half the price it should get and an ordinary 30-06 for a couple of lakhs

Did hear about an engraved 303 rifle that a fellow in Patiala was trying to sell.Don't think he found any buyer.

Take care,
penpusher

Gentlemen,

Vikram has given us a bikini - whatinformation his post conceals is more important than what it offers . The rifle in question was made on a BSA action by William Moore and Grey and retailed by them. The wood is incredible and the rifle is in fantastic shape. It is still on sale with the dealer - Vikram, there is simply no excuse now. Grumpy can do the transfer for you and hold the rifle until you get your license. Just pick it up asap. Just check with Grumpy about it, he would help you buy and transfer it. If you ever need to sell the gun, you have my word that I would buy it from you as we discussed.

Cheers, buddy, and good luck. Grumpy and Winnie have both seen the rifle first hand and assured me that even the Keira Knightley comparison is deficient. Marilyn Monroe might not be around, but this rifle is.

Mehul

penpusher,

If there are good 303 rifles on sale at decent prices AND if the bores are not completely ruined by firing cordite ammunition through them, they would have more than a little value over in the West. Just tell the guys about the Classifieds on IFG and sk them to post digital pics here. It would help them get some attention for our forums as well as help them sell the guns. I'll see to it that the IFG ads are widely viewed in the circles that matter.

Cheers!

Mehul

Hope you get it, Vikram. Fingers crossed.

Mehul, this isn't the one that Grumpy was teasing you with, is it?

Mack The Knife

P.S.: Is there a minimum period a foreign national has to wait for before applying for a FAC in England?

Mack The Knife,

This is the very rifle. Vikram and I chatted about it and he said that he would like to buy it and shoot it for some time until he decided to sell it, and, we have a gentlemens' agreement on this. Grumpy can hold the rifle for him pending his getting his FAC etc and the costs associated with this process are minimal. He knows the seller too - let's wait for Vikram to get her. As Shakespeare said, "the path opf true love never runs smooth."

Once again, my very best wishes to Vikram. Hope he gets the beauty!

Mehul

mehulkamdar wrote:This is the very rifle.

In which case I think I may have the pics somewhere. Will post them if I do find them.

Excellent choice!

Mack The Knife

Here they are.

Mack The Knife

P.S.: Hmmm...I don't think IFG permits links to big pics anymore. Lets try something else.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/LeeSpeed2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/LeeSpeed1.jpg

Still no luck.