Indians For Guns

Hello guys!
Good to be back! I recently retrieved some photos from my old corrupted mobile phone SD card and would like to share a few photos from a trial shoot of an old M-16 belonging to the Arms Kote of the 3rd Mizoram Armed Police (MAP).


Although this particular M-16 was approximately 30 years old, It shot really quite well and I was reminded of this when I tried out the INSAS last year. We fed it the original ammo it was captured with (I presume it to be of a foreign make and not of the Indian INSAS 5.56) and since I wasnt allowed to shoot more than a dozen rounds, I really couldnt make out the difference with an INSAS. It was as accurate and fun to shoot as a Cz .22!


I really surprised the armourer when I opened up the receiver and removed the bolt and gas pistons for a close up inspection. (just a matter of depressing a single lock pin and removing the two finger cocking handle)


Actually I have been wanting to do this for a long time ever since I was challenged by a Vietnam veteran on another forum with regard to my writeup on the INSAS and my comparision of it with the M-16! I have been lucky enough to handle the more modern version of the M-16 (i.e. the M-4, regards to the good US Army rangers colonel at CIJW Vairengte,)

After having handled the M-16 some and also the Ak-47, I have this to say about the M-16... It really is VERY light! What with its aluminium receiver and plastic furniture!

Jonah

Damn Jonah! Your escapades continue to make us lesser mortals feel like... well, less mortals!

On a more serious note, since you've fired both the INSAS, which uses a "toned down" (is that right?) 5.56 ammo and the M-16 with captured (full pressure/ power ammo I presume), is there any perceived difference in accuracy or recoil?

Would have loved to ask for the results of a comparative stress test, etc. with reliability feedback (the bugbear of the INSAS we are told) but that's out of the question.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

On a more serious note, since you've fired both the INSAS, which uses a "toned down" (is that right?) 5.56 ammo and the M-16 with captured (full pressure/ power ammo I presume), is there any perceived difference in accuracy or recoil?

Hello Abhijeet, Since the firing of the INSAS and the M-16 were months apart, I really wouldnt know! but come to think of it, The INSAS really did feel quite soft, but it could be because it had a heavier wooden furniture which could have dampened some of the recoil. Off hand, accuracy and sweeter to shoot wise, I think I would give them both the same marks. Edited. You are skating on thin ice. Again!

But considering my present condition may as well be in the US of A! Just you wait... dont know what this passion of mine will get me into!

Regards
Jonah!

Edited.

Back to the the juiced up centrefire 22's! Nothing would give me more pleasure than to learn that our local b@$*@*d (one always does seem to have a soft spot for the local boy, especially if his parentage is suspect) INSAS is the better of the two, am not holding my breath waiting for the verdict though...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

mundaire";p="60895 wrote:Nothing would give me more pleasure than to learn that our local b@$*@*d (one always does seem to have a soft spot for the local boy, especially if his parentage is suspect) INSAS.

Very cool,Jonah.Nice looking rifle. Nice pose too. Take that fingah off the triggah, naughty boy.

Edited.

Best-
Vikram

That would mean M193 5.56mm ammo since its an M16A1.

Anyone have approximations of the Indian 5.56mm round- in relation to the M193 and the SS109/M855?

The INSAS is rifled for 1 turn in 7.8 inches RH - which would bring it closer to the SS 109. The M16A1 is rifled at gentler 1:12 for the lighter (and older) M193 bullet. M195 Ball is a 5.56mm 55gr FMJ and the M855 (SS109 presumably) is a 5.56mm 62gr FMJ Steel Core (steel penatrator).

Some said it's an equivalent of the SS109...while establishment bakwaas claims it to be second to none(From the bottom I suppose)

That being said- both rounds will fire fairly reliably in the INSAS or any other 5.56mm Rifle - at least mechanically speaking. As regards ballistics and accuracy, one can only speculate till a test is done.

CC: Don't know for sure but can make a deduction. We seem to be importing large quantities of 5.56 ammo from Singapore.
The Singapore standard issue - ST Kinetics 5.56 × 45 mm SAR 21 - is primarily chambered for M193 - but can also be rifled for SS109 ammo.
My bad guess would be that the INSAS uses M193.

Ashok

lazybones";p="60918 wrote:CC: Don't know for sure but can make a deduction. We seem to be importing large quantities of 5.56 ammo from Singapore.
The Singapore standard issue - ST Kinetics 5.56 × 45 mm SAR 21 - is primarily chambered for M193 - but can also be rifled for SS109 ammo.
My bad guess would be that the INSAS uses M193.

Ashok

Goodness! we are still importing ammo?

So we've had 5.56mm fodder from supposedly from South Africa, Israel...Polish Machinery...now Singapore?

Thats pretty pathetic.... and predictably so in my book

nice pics jonah i remember reading about 5.56 ammo from poland long back(india today)

Nice pics there... Jonah, minus the finger-on-trigger.. !!

I had posted a picture once in this position and it went off the forum ...

Very nice rifle & pictures Jonah


SAM

indian";p="60994 wrote:nice pics jonah i remember reading about 5.56 ammo from poland long back(india today)

Presumably the ordnance people are struggling to meet the demand for retired ammunition then?