Indians For Guns

It is very frightening to see posts of people randomly taking apart 5 cartridges and putting together 4, or posting random powder charge wieghts et al. Or swapping out the 244 grain .315 bullet to a .200 grain Sierra etc... (from what I have read... not sure where they are getting these).
Please be aware that this is a great recepie for disaster.

You are dealing with unpublished powder data.. in an obscure caliber with no understanding of pressure.
Typically it takes anywhere between 20-50 shots based on .5 grain increments in a given range in batches of five to find an accuracy node with any given bullet, powder and primer combination.
With the use of internal ballistics software like Quickload that number is lower... but the characteristics of the components are known.

Please dont even try it with the IOF ammunition, you are really asking for trouble.

MoA";p="47467 wrote:It is very frightening to see posts of people... posting random powder charge wieghts et al. Or swapping out the 244 grain .315 bullet to a .200 grain Sierra etc... (from what I have read... not sure where they are getting these).

Z375 has gone to the extent of defining the J and JS differentiation of the 8mm/323, still makes him a country yokel? what do you reload, not as a challenge, but to get a better understanding of what defines a reloader and safe practices

Well, you must understand that when people go to the extent of posting detailed experiences, they know their red dot from IMR.

Random powder charges?
so whats wrong with a lighter bullet ? 30-06 is reloaded in varying bullet weights , right upto 220gr

MoA";p="47467 wrote:Please be aware that this is a great recepie for disaster.

Agreed about the 5/4 recipe, but dont cry wolf.All the modern metallic cartridges didnt drop out from cartridge heaven in the sky, but were painfully worked up , by wildcatters if they are still called that, using 'log' tables and paper pen, out in the field.

MoA";p="47467 wrote:You are dealing with unpublished powder data.. in an obscure caliber with no understanding of pressure.

Are you sure that all of us here are a bunch of country yokels? what would pore ol cottage cheese siting in the back of the beyond say...

I did at no point imply anyone was a country yokel.

What do I reload... not much: just 8x60S, .222 Remington magnum, .300 Winchester magnum, .260 Remington, .222 remington, 9mm para etc... some black powder stuff... will soon be adding 6.5x47, and maybe 30BR... not sold on the caliber yet.
So what does the IOF ammo use? IMR or Red Dot? What primers?

Do you understand the difference between loading say 46 grains of IOF over a 200 grain Sierra versus 244 grains? What the impact of the pressure change is going to be?

Or are you willing to loose your face quite literally to find out.

The J and JS applies to the 8x57 rather than the 8x50R
The load data between the three is not quite interchangeable.

Based on what someone reads here, and thinks ah lets give this a try... well are you willing to bear the consequences?

MoA,

Give us some credit for common sense.Also,you maybe surprised how much many Indians know about shooting and everything that goes with it,including re-loading.

You don't need a degree to reload.If the number of cartridges to be reloaded is limited to a couple of hundred,you don't need very fancy equipment for it also.

MoA,

Have you loaded the .50 BS express

penpusher ... Nope I dont load the .50 BS Express... dont have the time or inclination for that.

At the end of the day it you gun and your life. There isnt much room for error when handloading.

Agree with you that reloading is a lot of common sense. Am happy to see interest in it. And the equipment required isnt fance either. But there is equipment required none the less.

Every aspect of reloading whether its the component combination, through to seating depth etc has a bearing on the safety and performance of the ammunition.

If you want to do the five/four method its your choice.

I will stick to making my ammunition as safely and correctly as possible.

I start where you ended -with the 300's, upto 470's-with foam fillers, if it pleases you... and the IOF ammo uses a 3031 based powder.
Try the 30BR, you may like it eventually...
Since space does not permit the entire thesis, I do understand the relationship between powder charge and bullet weights... All of us may not have the means to measure, but we do understand CUP and similar pressure related terms , more so when posting in a public forum.
It would be no loss of 'face', literally or otherwise for me, nor would any one on this forum be responsible for what people do at their own discretion[including you, for paying anyones's medical bills for any accident suffered...]
So until Dillon or RCBS gets here, we'll just wait, comfortable in the knowledge we are not yokels.

Eljeffe,

I personally have never owned anything larger than the .300 except for 45//70 which is Black powder only... and was very messy. Havent shot anything larger either except for a .338 LM which I found uncomfortable, and .375 HH just to see what it was like.


I enjoy handloading... and encourage everyone to do so. Safely... and in an informed manner.

Mostly what I have seen would be downright dangerous. Then again as you aptly put it... its at their descretion.

I've always like the big boomers, probably early exposure to them.A 375 HH gave me my first scope eyebrow, it was a pre 64 model 70 with a burris 3-9 on detachable mounts.Fav still remains the 300 wby with 72 grns of 4350.Like I was telling some one a while ago-dont know why, but that very special feeling of a big brit double cant be beat...
While you have the freedom to enjoy your gun ownership to the limit, here in India, we are governed by laws even Draco would not have imagined !
Like the 4 round rule in Guwahati.
But gun related crimes in Delhi abound, routine news in page 22
Sure, reloading, bedding etc are obscure terms, understood and used by a handful of the hardcore indian gun fans, the man on the road buys his quota of 25 per year and is lucky,if he shoots a cylinder/mag full in a lifetime.
WITH WHAT LITTLE IS AVAILABLE, we try to wring some accuracy out of the clunkers available to us.
IOFB are not the paragons of QC, as Zubin stated, the factory load varied -39-42 grains.
it is routine occurence for a 22lr to have no/min load, fall out of the barrel, cases crack, actions do not cycle-someone bought a revolver at the factory, to find it had no rifling-the the horror stories are myriad.

Handloading will be enjoyable, if it is one of the many options available.Here,unfortunately, it is a desperate last measure.

I currently am contemplating getting rid of everything... and consolidating around 6.5 mm i.e. .260 and probably 6.5x47. Will probably keep the 8x60S chambered Vz though.

Growing up in India I remember things a little differently, never had to contend with these laws. Hunting was still legal. And having a blast meant emptying a .30 carbine as quickly as possible.

I do remember many a winter vacation spent going for duck, boar, sambar etc... but times have changed evidently.

Now am more content making small holes in pieces of paper... and playing around with the various components.

Also gun crime is something of a misnomer. Guns dont comitt crime, people do. And when the laws are as stringent and draconian as they are in India... then I guess only the criminals will be armed.

Cheers...

Aha, only people of a certain age will hark back so nostalgically. Welcome to the club then.
Gun crimes, to quote the washington post, and as all our so called media and yellow rags refer to it, for the lack of a better term-a 105 yr old 303 is still considered 'sophisticated' in the newspaper lexicon-oh, the sophistry.
Yes, only the criminals are armed-that chappy from UP, the MP who was jailed? had a pitched battle with the police, his men used auto weaponry, night sights et al.Another was arrested for trying to buy a stolen LMG from an army deserter.
You are lucky to be able to shoot paper-most times, we sit around, and TALk of shooting paper
Good choice the 6.5's, in lapua?what bullets ?is it true that 140 grainers go about 2800 fps

For everything other than the 8x60S I stick with SMK's or Lapua Scenar across weight categories. For 8x60S I use the cheapest ones available. I have all of WWII embedded in the barrel... its a fun minute of soda can shooter.

It probably is possible to push the 139/140/142 to 2800 I certainly havent. The way my chamber is cut I use a COAL of 2.92x versus the standard 2.80 that puts me about 0.01x off the lands. Depending on whether I am using Lapua or Sierra. Havent tried bergers... and dont see too much advantage at this point. Also since I am using fireformed cases with slightly different volumes... I tend to rely more on Quickload data, rather than the manuals. I worry more about accuracy than getting the highest mv.

For example with the 120 SMK the Sierra manual lists 39.5gr of VV N150 as the max. I find my accuracy node at loads higher than this, though at lower than the 2800 fps that the manual states. I also use the CCI BR primers instead of LR so that changes things slightly.

Also dont use Moly... again I dont expect my barrels to last forever. And I do want an excuse to get the funds for a nice 26 inch Border barrel released by my finance minister. Which then gives me an excuse to buy more brass, bullets, primers and powder.

Atleast a realist, knows where the next barrel is coming from-certainly not from using moly.Are you of the school that there is a bearing surface variation on the berger?
CCI BR been doing their magic from the time i started reading my primer-the kindergarten primer that is. free bore ? any plans to try the 123 scenar?

This is rapidly going OT with added charges of hijacking threads-please do post pics and experiences with the 6.5x 47 in a new thread-i need the heartburn...

Moly ...Not the bearing area.... more getting the wretched thing out of the barrel... (the horror).

Plus it tends to rub off on your fingers... and is very foul tasting. (Dont ask me how I know)

The Bergers and the BarnesX I would like to try... but they are stupidly diffiuclt to find in Europe (outside of the UK) and stupidly expensive.

Now I like shooting, even compititively... but am not in the league where a difference between .120 and .101 is going to matter. I shoot for fun... and am no where near the physical shape to squeeze the trigger between heartbeats. If I win... its a fluke

Yes I am trying all bullet weights from 100 gr through to 142... just need time. Shoot a bunch of powder/bullet combo's at 100, do well... go to 200... 300..400 out to 1100. Takes time... effort... money. I only shoot weekends generally. So its always pressed... fire five... let the barrel cool... fire another gun... another... come back to first... so on and so forth.

Average trip to the range.. between 60 and 200 rounds... depending on the distance. Excluding .22 lr

On an all day visit (vacation once or twice a year).. maybe between 300-600 then the shoulder is fried.

This excludes pistol.. where its more spray and pray or clays... which is simmillar.

Also its multiple ranges... some are a good 6 hour drive away... so its overnight...

Wish I had the land or a range that would allow me to shoot out to about 1500 meters.

elefe...

I do need a border barrel chambered for 6x47... also a lot my firends shooting it are saying... stick with .260R.
Some are saying go 65x47 over 6.5 creedmoor others .30 BR others forget the nonsense.. .260

From what I am seeing 6-6.5 Salva which is essentially a .260 necked down to 6mm or maybe do an absolute wildcat.. 6.5/300 which would be real barrel burner. A necked down .300 WM.

Lets see what the future holds...