Problem in magazine loading of KF cartridges in .22 IOF

[ebenezer]

Hi all,

Picked my first weapon, a .22 IOF rifle from Tamilnadu Armoury, Chennai for 35K. Also test-fired it and i should say the accuracy is perfect. Planning to scope it also. But the snag the weapon has is that magazine loading of KF cartridges is not possible, whereas Eley cartridges get loaded easily from the magazine. However, KF cartridges can be loaded directly into the chamber. But if forced into the chamber with the bolt, the shell gets twisted out of shape. The armourer said, that particular batch of KF cartridges were old, hence the problem. However, another new IOF rifle from the same batch available with the same dealer didn't have the problem. But I chose this one as this seemed to be lighter and better-looking than the other one. I'd like to know if anyone had come across such a problem and could it be set right. I am also planning to get it blued and the butt changed. Another thing i noticed was the KF cartridge shells were a little thicker than the Eley cartridges.

Thanks in advance,
Ebenezer

[b.baracho]

Buddy you must always cheak the mechanism if the cartridge goes in freely ,how does it eject after you pull the bolt,accuracy etc... the weight does not matter infect heavier the better the looks can always be altered to ones taste.

[Sakobav]

eb

I agree with baracho that weight of rifle shouldnt be THE criteria action how IOF rifle functions is more important for an IOF build rifle. If possible take the rifle back and exchange it for the other rifle. Maybe other guys can provide better feedback whether this can be fixed by a gun smith (finding a good one is a task in itself). YOu can also look up earlier posts on this forum on work done on .22 rifle by members.

best

[ebenezer]

[quote="b.baracho";p="45299"]
Buddy you must always cheak the mechanism if the cartridge goes in freely ,how does it eject after you pull the bolt,accuracy etc... the weight does not matter infect heavier the better the looks can always be altered to ones taste.

Hi Baracho,
There is no problem with the ejection, both with KF as well as Eley cartridges. As I stated earlier, accuracy is perfect, say at around 100 feet.

eb

I agree with baracho that weight of rifle shouldnt be THE criteria action how IOF rifle functions is more important for an IOF build rifle. If possible take the rifle back and exchange it for the other rifle. Maybe other guys can provide better feedback whether this can be fixed by a gun smith (finding a good one is a task in itself). YOu can also look up earlier posts on this forum on work done on .22 rifle by members.

best

[/quote]

ngrewal,

It's too late. I have already produced it before the local Deputy Commissioner. Anyway, the armourer promised to get the problem rectified if the problem continues with the new batch of KF cartridges. These cartridges also appeared to be bulged and old.

Thanks
Ebenezer

[marksman]

Ebenezer,
Have the chamber finely polished by an EXPERT GUNSMITH and hopefully it'll solve this problem. It may be due to roughness around the chamber opening due to careless machining. A minor problem with no cause to worry,hopefully. Also, try foreign ammo before doing this. Our ammo is very very sub standard anyways. The dimensions of the KF machine changes with every passing year.
Marksman

[ebenezer]

Ebenezer,
Have the chamber finely polished by an EXPERT GUNSMITH and hopefully it'll solve this problem. It may be due to roughness around the chamber opening due to careless machining. A minor problem with no cause to worry,hopefully. Also, try foreign ammo before doing this. Our ammo is very very sub standard anyways. The dimensions of the KF machine changes with every passing year.
Marksman

Dear Marksman,
Thanks a lot for your reply. There is absolutely no problem with foreign ammo (Eley).
Regards
Ebenezer

[marksman]

You have a perfect rifle with rather close tolerances,Ebenezer. It's the ammo that's worrisome. Best of luck and happy paper punching.
Marksman

[veejosh]

Hi Ebenezer,
I got one for myself and this too has the same problem but with 100 for an Eley pop I don't mind KF being forced down the gullet of the IOF.

Do look up this photo of the work I did to jazz up the look of the rifle.Its 2nd from the left.It works well too.



Best

Vikas

[ebenezer]

Hi Ebenezer,
I got one for myself and this too has the same problem but with 100 for an Eley pop I don't mind KF being forced down the gullet of the IOF.

Do look up this photo of the work I did to jazz up the look of the rifle.Its 2nd from the left.It works well too.



Best

Vikas

Hi Vikas,
Beautiful collection u've got there dude. What make is the DBBL?
Regards
Ebenezer

[veejosh]

Its always nice to know that someone liked your collection.
The DBBL is a Webley-Scot (1954) form Dad's collection

Regards

Vikas

[b.baracho]

Vikas nice collection pal,
Reg,
b.baracho

[TwoRivers]

I assume that the K-F ammo hangs up at the chamber mouth and won't chamber when fed from the magazine. Normally you'd suspect the magazine if a .22 RF won't feed, but since it feeds the Eley's perfectly, it has to be the ammunition. Probably a combination of a sharp-edged chamber mouth, and shape of the bullet nose. Plus, possibly oversized ammo. Age of the ammo won't have anything to do with, cartridges don't get bigger around the middle with age, like we do. Cheers.

[Mack The Knife]

I assume that the K-F ammo hangs up at the chamber mouth and won't chamber when fed from the magazine.

Not quite, TwoRivers. The problem lies with the thicker rim on the KF rounds. As a result the bolt is unable to pick up a round from the magazine.

The chamber, at least on mine, is fine and will accept a hand chambered KF round.

There is some more information at http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=8

[TwoRivers]

If the rim is "thicker", the bolt would be harder, or impossible, to close, but it could not affect the feeding from the magazine. Even in non K-F rounds you occasionally will find one where the rim has not been perfectly folded, being too thick for the bolt to close. If larger, i.e. too large in diameter, it could just possibly be held too low and tipped down in the magazine, depending on the configuration of the feed lips, and not get picked up by the bolt. But from the wording of the first post I can only assume that the K-F round is not being over-ridden by the bolt, will leave the magazine, but will not chamber. That would be a matter of misalignment, most likely due to bullet shape. The statement that they can be chambered singly pretty much rules out a problem with the rim of the cartridge. With a rim too thick to allow it to slide up under the extractors, the cartridge would point too high and strike the barrel breech above the chamber. With the de.scription of the problem sometimes vague and not overly technical, trying to pin down the problem becomes difficult. If I could see the rifle and ammo, I could tell you in three minutes what the problem is, and fix it in fifteen. Cheeers.

[danish21]

But the snag the weapon has is that magazine loading of KF cartridges is not possible, whereas Eley cartridges get loaded easily from the magazine. However, KF cartridges can be loaded directly into the chamber. But if forced into the chamber with the bolt, the shell gets twisted out of shape. The armourer said, that particular batch of KF cartridges were old, hence the problem. However, another new IOF rifle from the same batch available with the same dealer didn't have the problem. But I chose this one as this seemed to be lighter and better-looking than the other one. I'd like to know if anyone had come across such a problem and could it be set right. I am also planning to get it blued and the butt changed. Another thing i noticed was the KF cartridge shells were a little thicker than the Eley cartridges.

Just change the spring of bolt which helps in ejecting the cartridge. Original bolt spring is made of very thin & low quality steel thats why it does not hold the cartridge tightly during ejection. Where as eley cartidges will work fine but some times you'll face same problem in that also. When i modifiey Denzil Matthew's .22 rifle i also faced the same problem. Just ask some gunsmith in your city to make a new spring and after replacing it your problem will get solved with KF cartridges. HTH