Indians For Guns

.465 India Nitro Express

That is what Holland & Holland called their Express double when they launched the 1910 H & H catalouge.

Essentially an improvement over the then popular .450 cordite.

With the new Velopex bullets, it could place 7 out of 10 bullets within a one square inch circle at 100 yards !

365 grains and 480 grain bullets packed with 75 grains of Cordite ( Nitro Powder ) equal to about 6 Dram Eq. of Black powder produced a Mv of 2282 fps.

One of the most elite and famous big game hunters in India at that time The Maharaja of Cooch Behar ( Father of HH Maharani Gayatri Devi of Jaipur ) endorsed the rifle and had many a sucessful Howdah and Machaan hunt with it.

He declares this to be his favourite express rifle along with his 12 Bore H & H Paraox gun. You needed nothing else those days for the entire game. Be it Jungle Fowl, Spur Fowl, Pea fowl, a passing dove, Deer, Tiger, Rhino or Elephants.

Other testimonials came from Sir Samuel Baker and the Prime Minister of Hyderabad state Viqar ul ----.

Soon the other Maharajas of various Indian principalities had them and it found its way on the African velds as well.

But the fact that it came from H & H only for about 75 Pounds then, was its downfall. It fell to the 450/400 Jefferey which would have been much cheaper and available from every Calcutta gun dealer from Birmingham producers.

The .465 India was also offered as a single barrel bolt action rifle.

Ballastics.

Kynoch .465 Nitro Express - 480 grain Mv 2150 fps Me 4930 ft. Lb

Shahid: That would have been 75 "grains" of cordite. The .360 2 1/2" Express was more the .30-30 of its day, the .400 Purdey was more of a forerunner for the .270. Cheers.

Yes indeed, it was 75 grains not grams of cordite.

What was the bullet size of .400 Purdey ?

Light for caliber, 230 grains, with 47 grains of cordite at 2050 fps in its "cordite for blackpowder" loading. A heavier bullet may have been used with black powder. Cheers.

Kynoch lists two Purdey calibres in .400 class.

The first one is .400 3 inch Purdey

230 g, Mv 2050 fps Me 2148 ft lb

THe second one is 400/36o purdey
300 grain bullet , Mv 1950 fps Me 2537 ft lb

Compare this to a modern .375 H & H Magnum with a lighter bullet 270 g instead of the usual 300 grains.

FOr 270 g, Mv 2600 fps, Me 4060 ft lb

Products ( new introductions ) like these in the 1920s took over from the older favourites.

.375 H & H magnum is still in use, even the belted version for bolt action rifle remains ever so popular for African game.


The fact that Jeffery 450 / 400 took over from all others in popularity in these parts was : ( my reckoning )

It was cheaper, on offer from Jeffery, Rodda, Manton, Lyon & Lyon, Westley Richards, Arm & Navy, William Evans etc. at a price much lesser than H & H.

By 1940s Elephant and Rhino shooting or even Bison really declined. It was in a few regions of Assam, SOuth Bihar, MP and Mysore that Bison or Elephants were common game.

Common game became Tigers, Leopards, Sambhar, Barasingha, Blue Bull and Chital for which the 450/400 was more than sufficient.

THis rifle cartridge , a preference of the Officer and the Gentleman hunter fired a 400 grain SN bullet with Mv 2125 fps and Me 4010 ft lb.

The Choice of the Royalty remained the .500 Express or the .577 . .577 Rewa or the 600 Express in a few cases.

The Maharaja's 500 Nitro Express fired a 570 g bullet at 2150 fps Mv and Me of 5850 ft lb. Thats impressive.

An able bodies man who could fire a .577 fired a 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps and 7010 ft lb of Me

The .577 Rewa version had ballastics very close to the .600 NE

The 600 express fired a 900 g bullet Mv 1950, Me 7600 ft lb

THe 700 NE fires a 1000 grain bullet at 2000 fps with an Me of 8900 ft. lb

Shahid: British convention lists parent case first/ then caliber the case is necked to .400/.360 is a .36 caliber, corresponding closely to 9.3mm. Cheers.

Shahid

could you please let us know the differences in the 2 rifles you mention above.

the .577 . and the .577 Rewa

Shamsher

hi shahid and tworivers

is the 360 also called as 360nitro??does any maker manufacture this ammo??

Dear Indian

The 360 is indeed a nitro powered but never mentioned using the term "nitro".

Eley had developed this ammo & a german company made rifles for them initially.

A few years later H&H came out with the 375 H&H. - the 375 H&H was more powerful with better ballastics than the 360. People prefered to have the 375 H&H over the 360.

The 360 was the only rifle in it's class till the 375 H&H took over.

A similar story goes for the 465 which became unpopular after the launch of the Rigby's 470

SS

thanks for the info shamsher

about the 577 Reva

This gun was made to order for HH Reva, The projectile used was the one used in the 600 NE
& the shell was 577.
Only one such rifle was ever made.

14-15 years back I heard this was bought by a dealer in Delhi for almost 10LK.
Who knows where it is now!
SS

recently heard that there is a 36ONitro with dealer in khammam,AP.Just an info for any members who might be interested.i dont have an idea about the price and ammo

There's another 360 in Gabana near Aligarh
It's a German make, engraved double. with about 80 pop's

SS

Hi Shamsher, I am touring ALigarh a lot these days. Send more details i will go and have a look if passing that way. I was there in ALigarh last Sunday. Coming again today.

Viewed this string after a long time today.

The .577 REWA originated in this way, i.e. The Maharaja of REWA got one developed with similar ballastics as .600 NE in .577 chambering but it is not the only one, Gibbs, Wilkies, jefferys and William Evans made / got made quite a few. Kynoch produced cartridges and do so even today.

A .577 REWA made by Gibbs exists with one of my cousins even today.

the 360 in Khammam is a Greener