Indians For Guns

Blame the French. They started it in 1886 with their Lebel rifle and first smokeless 8x51R cartridge, 232 grains @2060 fps. The Portuguese followed with an 8x60R, though still loaded with black powder, in a single-shot falling block rifle. The Germans were next, with the Model 88 Commission rifle and 7.9x57 rimless cartridge, 227 grains @2060 fps. In 1889 the Brits followed with the .303, the Belgians with the 7.65x53, the Danes with their 8x58R Krag-Jorgensen, and the Austrians with the .315 India, only, cheeky buggers, they called it the 8x50R. In civilian guise it became the 8x50R Mannlicher, a.k.a. 8.2x50R Mannlicher, a.ka. .315 Mannlicher in England. Ballistics were 244 grains @ 2030 fps. Note that all these cartridges shared a heavy bullet at around 2000 to 2100 fps. They were then state-of-the-art for military cartridges, capable of penetrating saddle and horse, and the dismounted rider hiding behind; as well as field fortifications. Both the Austrians and British had to load with black powder until manufacture of smokeless powder was established. While everybody else switched to a lighter, pointed bullet at higher velocity within ten years or so, the Austrians retained their heavy round-nosed bullet, having and arch-duke who was cavalry-oriented and had a say in matters military. In Austria, surprisingly, the cartridge was never all that popular as a hunting cartridge. With the preference for break-barrel rifles the thick-cupped military primer this cartridge was loaded with gave ignition problems; and other slimmer cartridges allowed a slimmer and lighter rifle. When the British outlawed the use of the .303 in India and the Sudan, BSA, which were selling .303 Lee-Enfield sporters, lost a market. There are not too many cartridges in the .303 class you can put into the L-E, and the 8x50R Mannlicher provided the best fit, and ballistic improvement over the old .303 Mk. VI with its 215 grain bullet at 2060 fps. Magazine capacity is still 7 rounds, and the cartridge was already being loaded in Britain, being in use in Greece and Bulgaria as well as Austria. When IOF started civilian rifle production in the late 1960s, following in the footsteps of BSA was no doubt a logical choice. Other rounds the L-E is suitable for would have been the 6.5x53R Dutch Mannlicher, the 7x57R, the .30-40 Krag, the old .375 Nitro 2.5", and the .405 Winchester. The latter two most people would probably not want to shoot all that much. I can't find any reference to the Austrians ever loading a lighter hunting bullet, though I vaguely remember someone telling me seeing E-K listing a 154 grain bullet @ 2700 fps as well as the standard 244 grainer. Cheers.

There is no need to start a fresh topic on this.Moderators, can you please merge it with the previous thread.Multiple posts on the same topic only create confusion and clutter up the board