Indians For Guns

Kuduae-
Need your help on this one!
What was the standard caliber of German armed forces around 1937? asking because I saw a 60cm barrel (probably a ' carbine'??) mauser rifle with Nazi proof mark/aceptance marks,a while ago. i am guessing the caliber is 7.92mm...no chance to chamber cast etc, but the actionj is pretty tight on lockup, barrel is fair to good, woodwork needs changing...

Asif,

The barrel length corressponds to that found on the Karabiner 98k (Kar 98K). Hence, it would most probably be the 7.92 x 57mm aka 8mm Mauser.

Mack The Knife Bana";p="35137 wrote:Asif,

The barrel length corressponds to that found on the Karabiner 98k (Kar 98K). Hence, it would most probably be the 7.92 x 57mm aka 8mm Mauser.

...and there's a superb specimen lying around in my relations place. 1941 vintage.

Thanks Mack The Knife,
If only I could use the action...
CC whats the ammo availabilty? fresh stuff or wall hanger?

eljefe";p="35153 wrote:Thanks Mack The Knife,
If only I could use the action...
CC whats the ammo availabilty? fresh stuff or wall hanger?

Not much, this end of town, but I remember some months back, India Arms Corporation(Lucknow, I think) had good stocks of it... S&B if I remember right.

Asif,

Check out this link >> - I guess you were right about the calibre being 7.92mm (7.92X57)...

It would seem that since this was a wartime production model, some corners were cut (as would be expected) and this would be less desirable than one of the pre-war/ early war production models...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

mundaire";p="35185 wrote:It would seem that since this was a wartime production model....

Asif claims the rifle was built "around 1937"...

Incidentally, Asif, how did you figure out the vintage?

Edit: Just had a look through the link posted by Abhijeet and it says that barring few exceptions every K98k was stamped with the manufacturers' code and date of manufacture on top of the receiver.

I didnt have to figure out Mack The Knife-twas stamped on the receiver, beneath the proof and the Waffenamt stamp
I am wondering how to differentiate between large ring and small ring kar's any help on this one?

hello doc,
although the language seems french,some good detailed pics and specs u may like to have a look for the 98k and also year wise deatils-

http://tirmilitairefabrice.ifrance.com/ ... 98%20k.htm

cheers sanjiv

Large ring is M98. Small ring is M94/96.
How specific do you want me to be Jefe ?

From 1888 until 1945 the 8x57 aka 8mm Mauser aka 7,9x57 was the German military cartridge, all the time using the same case dimensions, but,like the .303 British, different loads. The M88 commission rifle, designed by the "Gewehrpruefungskommission"= rifle testing commission, the father of all Mannlicher turn bolt rifles, used the M88 cartridge wth a 226grs round nose bullet at 2090fps from the 28" barrel of the long infantry rifle, not very different from the other contemporary military loads. The M88 military rifles shot this .318" diameter bullet through a barrel with a .324" groove diameter barrel, depending on the bullet to be slugged up by the push of the gas and inertia to fill the grooves, a fashion taken over from the earlier paper patched lead slugs of black powder days. In 1904 a new load was introduced, the 8mmS bullet cartridge. S mens spitz=pointed bullet, a 154grs bullet that left the 28" barrel at 2820 fps to increase point-blank range. This short bullet did not "slug up" anymore, so its diameter was increased to .323" to fit the military groove diameter. All then existing Mauser M98 rifles and many M88 rifles in sevice were converted to use the new load by slightly enlarging the neck and throat area of their chambers and fitting new sights. This load was used in WWI in both the 28" infantry rifle, a large ring M98 Mauser action, as well as the lighter 24" barrel M98a carbine, which was made on a small ring M98 action. You can easily distinguish a small ring Mauser M98 action:The left side of the receiver is straight, while on a large ring action there is a pronounced step from the left wall to the receiver ring.
Meanwhile, the makers of sporting arms had followed a different path: To increase accuracy, they had adjusted the groove diameter of their barrels to the .318" diameter of the M88 bullet, hence the confusion with 8mm loads with I (.318") or S (.323") bores!
During WWI, the performance of the 154grs S bullet in very long range machine gun barrages and in penetration was found to be wanting, so the sS = schweres Spitzgeschoss = heavy pointed bullet of 196grs at about 2700fps was introduced, which became the standart used in WWII.
(to be continued)

A nice write up Kuduae

Cheers

Thanks kudu and sorry for the late reply
I also read that certain Wehrmacht sniper units managed to lay their hands on airforce issue 7.92 ammo for MG's-which was hotter and supposedly gave them that extra thump!
fine rifle and caliber-The one i saw is small ring...196 gr at 2700fps is a massive thumper!

Just posted a photo of some different 8mm cartridges, all sometimes called ".315" by British and Indian dealers, in my personal album. Click Album button below. Obviously, only the two 8x57S military and hunting loads are fully interchangeable. The 8x57 M88 with it's .318" bullet may be used in an S-bore .323" barrel, but not the other way around.

hi,

most of the "cutting corners" in german wartime production started in 1942 and really intensified from 1943 onwards, that does not mean that stuff made 43 onwards was bad (the IOF is still making worse stuff), but i would prefer a pre 1942 german military mauser.



rajat