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"New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:16 am
by xl_target
Russian military upgrades to AK-12… and you can, too.
The Russian military hasn’t had a significant assault rifle upgrade since the AK-74, but that is about to change with the adoption of the AK-12, which is entering service in 2014:
Various modifications of a new Kalashnikov AK-12 assault rifle as well as a host of other small arms will be put in service with the Russian armed forces in 2014, a senior government official said.
“In 2014, the Russian army will start receiving new assault rifles, handguns, machine guns and sniper rifles, including 5.45-mm and 7.62-mm variants of the Kalashnikov AK-12 assault rifle,” Deputy Chairman of the Military-Industrial Commission, Oleg Bochkarev, said in an interview with Echo Moskvy radio on Monday.
Development of the AK-12 began in mid-2011. The new weapon retains the overall layout and features of the AK-74, in service with the Russian army since the 1970s, but features several modifications and ergonomic changes.
The new assault rifle has being developed as a basic platform for nearly 20 different modifications of the weapon.
The rifle features three firing modes: single shot, three-shot burst and automatic fire. The muzzle of the AK-12 has been designed to shoot foreign-standard barrel-mounted grenades.
The word on the AK-12 is that it is a “old-new” design, taken the proven principles behind the older AK-patterns and incorporating features common to more modern western assault rifles.
It will be interesting to see if the Russian military AK-12 standardizes the use of the quad-stack 60-round “coffin” magazine, or if they’ll keep using the tens of millions of standard 30-round magazines as their first-line magazines.
Interestingly enough, The Firearms Blog is reporting that Izhmash may be exporting a semi-automatic civilian version of the AK-12 to the United States this year, so there is a chance you might get your hands on the civilian version of the latest Russian AK before the Russian military does.
Quotes and images from here
Additional sources:
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_201 ... 06132.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/septembe ... 09133.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_r ... video.html
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:15 am
by timmy
It's hard to argue with success, isn't it? It would be nice if that poster was in English. I would like to know what changes and improvements they are claiming.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:44 am
by Sakobav
Question is whether it can compete or match with M4, AR 15 and other assault rifles. reliability and ruggedness is great from this AK family its the accuracy which I am not sure of
Cheers
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:26 am
by timmy
I wonder whether the 7.62x51 version is longer than the versions chambered for the other cartridges, or whether they use the same long action for all?
It would not be easy, getting a riveted conglomeration of parts to shoot like an M4. Then again, there are other advantages to the AK. I believe that, before the 2nd Iraq War in 2003, when there was a tight arms embargo on Iraq, Saddam was paying the Muscovites over $400 a pop for AKs, and the Russians were cranking them out for less than $50.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:47 am
by xl_target
timmy wrote:It's hard to argue with success, isn't it? It would be nice if that poster was in English. I would like to know what changes and improvements they are claiming.
This is what I have found so far:
Ambidextrous forward charging handle.
Smaller ejection port.
New safety switch.
New fire control switch with three modes of fire (single shot, 3 round burst and full auto).
New hinged top cover. The cover is a lot more rigid that the previous AK rifles.
Quad picatinny rails.
Folding and length adjustable stock.
Ergonomic pistol grip (with a decent radius between trigger guard and grip).
New muzzle brake that attaches to standard NATO 22mm threading.
Improved barrel rifling.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:51 am
by jonahpach
INSAS is much better! India should hardsell its INSAS in view of the fact that I purchases most of its billions of dollars worth of military hardware from russia..
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:03 am
by fantumfan2003
This system has so many similarities to the FN SCAR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR
OT : Kenyan soldier in the ongoing hostage crisis are seen with the FN SCAR.
M.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:39 pm
by Grumpy
The FN-SCAR is bound to promote similar multi-calibre, multi-use platforms. The Indian announcement regarding their development of a `double barrel` rifle was obviously their variation of the theme ...... Lets hope it is more reliable and successful than the POS INSAS.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:13 am
by xl_target
fantumfan2003 wrote:This system has so many similarities to the FN SCAR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR
OT : Kenyan soldier in the ongoing hostage crisis are seen with the FN SCAR.
M.
Yes and no. Externally (the shell) the lines have become more boxy and bear a certain resemblance to the FN SCAR.
Internally, it's still an AK74 with some changes. See how the bolt carrier, piston and piston rod are all one piece.
Image from
here
Compare the bolt and basic design of the AK74 to the AK12. They are pretty close.
Here is the SCAR. The bolt carrier is different.
image from
here
The SCAR is also a lot longer rifle than the AK.
Here is the G36. The bolt carrier here has some similarities with the AK but it's not the same.
Image from
here
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:44 am
by Grumpy
I think that fantumfan 2003 was talking about the AK12 platform/concept having so many similarities to the FN SCAR platform rather than physical similarities - and the concept obviously does have similarities as both are attempting to be universal small arms systems.
I`m not convinced ..... Seems to me that there are going to be conversion kits abandoned everywhere. US SOCOM has cancelled it`s SCAR 16 order and is buying SCAR 17s with 5.56 conversion kits instead. So who decides which calibre to use .... and how many rifles should be used in each calibre .... and where do they store the kits not being used ? I
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:45 am
by timmy
XL, thanks for the English version! Seems that this is pretty much about tweaking the design, rather than revolution or even evolution, really.
The SCAR and G36 seem more evolutionary with their 7 and 6 lug bolt and different trigger assemblies.
I have never been able to get too excited about these multiple locking lugs. It seems to me that, when you get past three or four at the most, there is a question of how many actually make contact, especially with today's manufacturing tolerances and sloppy fitting. While the lugs may make contact when the piece is fired, I would bet that, on a number of these designs, they don't when the action is cycled by hand, and that means that the ones that do make contact have to flex a little when each round is fired.
The AK, with only two locking lugs, doesn't have too much locking lug rotation (speaking about the angle of rotation), anyway, so I suppose there's more strength conferred by the multiple lug system.
None of these people are copying the Stoner system with direct impingement, are they?
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:01 am
by Grumpy
lol. Yeah, like the Russians would pay up if they were sued !
Interesting though that the M69W first saw the light of day back in `62. I have an idea that the Stoner System would be difficult - if not impossible - to patent however. Eugene Stoner didn`t get enough credit for any of his designs.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:04 am
by timmy
I would have to think that whatever patents were applied for by Stoner or assigned by him to others would be long since expired by now. I believe 17 years is the maximum.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:10 am
by timmy
OK, he worked for Armalite, who i am sure was the assignee on the patents, and Armalite sold the rights to Colt, where Stoner moved to in 1961. Those patents have to be expired by now.
Re: "New"Assault rifles for the Russian Armed Forces
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:45 am
by xl_target
None of these people are copying the Stoner system with direct impingement, are they?
No one else is doing direct impingement anymore except for the AR, are they?
While everyone else may be doing something similar with the bolt carrier, they are all using a piston. If there is a weak point in the AR design, it's the direct impingement. However, the AR just keeps soldiering on.
Apart from the stiffening rib in the back of the action and the picatinny rails all over, it seems to be just an AK74. The flimsy action cover was always the weak spot of the AK (and the FAL). I think this will stiffen up the action cover nicely and allow the easier of today's optics.
I always wondered about the multiple lug bolts too. Just seemed like unnecessary machining. I suppose it allows a quicker unlocking of the action.
