Indians For Guns

Hello all,

I recently saw a .22 Savage High Power take down rifle along with adapters to fire .22 LR cartridges in it. I wonder how well do these adapters work and what kind of accuracy can be expected from firing .22 LR cartridges in a .22 Hornet or a .22 High Power rifle using adapters for the purpose.

Regards.

miroflex wrote:Hello all,

I recently saw a .22 Savage High Power take down rifle along with adapters to fire .22 LR cartridges in it. I wonder how well do these adapters work and what kind of accuracy can be expected from firing .22 LR cartridges in a .22 Hornet or a .22 High Power rifle using adapters for the purpose.

Regards.

Miroflex,
I do not think it is possible to fire .22 LR in a .22 hornet rifle using adapters.
However it is quite possible to do so in a .22 Hi Power rifle. There was a Savage Model 99 take down lever action in my house years ago and we had four stainless steel .22 LR adapters (of US origin) that would feed through the magazine without a problem. The rifle incidentally also had a 410 barrel and the shells would feed through the magazine the same way. The Savage Model 99 was a versatile weapon offering so many options but as far as I can remember it was not very accurate when 22 LRs were fired from the adapters. The Hi Power rounds were quite accurate on the other hand.
I don't have experience of handling .22 LR adapters in any other Hi Power rifle. Others might throw some light

TC

The .22 Hornet has a bullet diameter of .224" and generally has a rifling twist of 1 in 14". The .22 LR has a bullet diameter of .222 and generally has a rifling twist of 1 in 16".
So as you can see, you will be running a bullet that is smaller than the bore diameter.

Here is another thing to consider:

Older guns generally have a slower twist rate of 1-16" (or one turn in every 16 inches (410 mm) of barrel length) for lighter bullets with a .223 caliber dimension. Newer guns feature a faster 1-14" twist in the .224 bore diameter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Hornet

Following up own at XL said, the .22 Long Rifle is smaller than the .224 caliber usually found in center fire .22s. However, some Hornets were sized to .223, so the difference is not so great.

.22 Savage Hi Por is another matter, however: it has a groove diameter of .228" and you are not going to get a tremendous degree of accuracy by firing a .22 Long Rifle bullet out of it.

Maximum bullet diameter for the .22 RF is actually .225", though US ammo usually runs closer to .223". Even though, they usually give fair to excellent accuracy in the standard .224" centerfire barrel. Most European .22 RF ammo runs closer to .225". The Savage .22 Hi-Power is another matter, due to its .228" groove diameter. Here I would say 2-3" groups at 50 yards being the best you can expect. Adapters for the .22 Hornet are usually of two kinds. Either with an off-set angled bore so that the firing pin can strike the rim of the cartridge; or with a separate, easily lost, "striker".

In any case, adapter/centerfire combinations seem to be even more picky than .22 Rf rifles when it comes to ammo preference. If it were not for Indian gun laws, I'd say forget about adapters and get a .22 RF rifle for plinking and practice.

TC wrote:

miroflex wrote:Hello all,

I recently saw a .22 Savage High Power take down rifle along with adapters to fire .22 LR cartridges in it. I wonder how well do these adapters work and what kind of accuracy can be expected from firing .22 LR cartridges in a .22 Hornet or a .22 High Power rifle using adapters for the purpose.

Regards.

Miroflex,
I do not think it is possible to fire .22 LR in a .22 hornet rifle using adapters.
However it is quite possible to do so in a .22 Hi Power rifle. There was a Savage Model 99 take down lever action in my house years ago and we had four stainless steel .22 LR adapters (or US origin) that would feed through the magazine without a problem. The rifle incidentally also had a 410 barrel and the shells would feed through the magazine the same way. The Savage Model 99 was a versatile weapon offering so many options but as far as I can remember it was not very accurate when 22 LRs were fired from the adapters. The Hi Power rounds were quite accurate on the other hand.
I don't have experience of handling .22 LR adapters in any other Hi Power rifle. Others might throw some light

TC

Thank you for sharing your experiences, TC. I can understand that accuracy would come down when using adapters for firing .22 rimfire cartridges in a centrefire rifle barrel.

xl_target wrote:The .22 Hornet has a bullet diameter of .224" and generally has a rifling twist of 1 in 14". The .22 LR has a bullet diameter of .222 and generally has a rifling twist of 1 in 16".
So as you can see, you will be running a bullet that is smaller than the bore diameter.

Here is another thing to consider:

Older guns generally have a slower twist rate of 1-16" (or one turn in every 16 inches (410 mm) of barrel length) for lighter bullets with a .223 caliber dimension. Newer guns feature a faster 1-14" twist in the .224 bore diameter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Hornet

Thank you for sharing the information regarding bullet diameters, XL_Target. The comparison of twist rates, especially of older .22 Hornets, with those of .22 rimfire rifles is also very relevant to to my question.

Regards.

timmy wrote:Following up own at XL said, the .22 Long Rifle is smaller than the .224 caliber usually found in center fire .22s. However, some Hornets were sized to .223, so the difference is not so great.

.22 Savage Hi Por is another matter, however: it has a groove diameter of .228" and you are not going to get a tremendous degree of accuracy by firing a .22 Long Rifle bullet out of it.

Hello Timmy,

Surprisingly, many people in India own and use adapters to fire .22 rimfire cartridges in Hi Power Savage rifles. I wonder what kind of accuracy do they get with this combination.

Regards.

Miroflex: I have never fired this combination, so I can't give you any personally acquired experience. I suppose all you could do is either find someone who has one or buy it and try it yourself. However, considering the disparity between the .22 Long Rifle bullet and the Hi Power bore, I would think that accuracy would be none too good.

timmy wrote:Miroflex: I have never fired this combination, so I can't give you any personally acquired experience. I suppose all you could do is either find someone who has one or buy it and try it yourself. However, considering the disparity between the .22 Long Rifle bullet and the Hi Power bore, I would think that accuracy would be none too good.

Hello Timmy,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am thinking of buying one i.e. a .22 Hornet or a .22 Hi Power Savage and trying out the combination. However, I thought I would elicit members' views before taking the plunge. Let us see whether those who have actually used these adapters come forward to share their experiences.

I spoke to one member, Johny4455 today. He has used these adapters in a .22 Hornet and says they were too tight a fit in the chamber of his rifle, which was of European make. He experienced difficulties in extracting the adapters. He mentioned that the problem may not arise in American rifles which have slightly larger chambers than European ones.

I am tempted by the idea of owning a two-in-one rifle because of the difficulties of getting another licence and the overall restriction on the number of licences in India.

Regards.

I am tempted by the idea of owning a two-in-one rifle because of the difficulties of getting another licence and the overall restriction on the number of licences in India.

Miroflex, in that case it would be wiser to go in for a Savage Hi Power. You will get more power out of the Hi Power and no extraction problem.

Cheers

TC

TwoRivers wrote:Maximum bullet diameter for the .22 RF is actually .225", though US ammo usually runs closer to .223". Even though, they usually give fair to excellent accuracy in the standard .224" centerfire barrel. Most European .22 RF ammo runs closer to .225". The Savage .22 Hi-Power is another matter, due to its .228" groove diameter. Here I would say 2-3" groups at 50 yards being the best you can expect. Adapters for the .22 Hornet are usually of two kinds. Either with an off-set angled bore so that the firing pin can strike the rim of the cartridge; or with a separate, easily lost, "striker".

In any case, adapter/centerfire combinations seem to be even more picky than .22 Rf rifles when it comes to ammo preference. If it were not for Indian gun laws, I'd say forget about adapters and get a .22 RF rifle for plinking and practice.

Thank you very much for your views, Two Rivers and also for the information regarding bullet diameters of European and US made ammunition. I have yet to measure bullet diameters of Indian ammunition made in the Kirkee Factory (KF brand of India fame) but I suspect it is closer to European rather than US sizes.

A fellow member, Johny4455 had experienced difficulties with .22 Hornet adapters being too tight a fit in the chamber. He ultimately had to throw away the adapters he says.

I may yet undergo the trials and tribulations of getting a fourth licence for a .22 Long Rifle.

Regards.

miroflex wrote:[


A fellow member, Johny4455 had experienced difficulties with .22 Hornet adapters being too tight a fit in the chamber. He ultimately had to throw away the adapters he says.

I may yet undergo the trials and tribulations of getting a fourth licence for a .22 Long Rifle.

Regards.

That would have been a problem of that particular rifle and adapters, not a problem in general. And easily enough fixed by anyone with a lathe and some sandpaper.

As an aside, would not the adapter have to be licensed as a rifle under Indian law, in order to legally purchase ammunition?

Regards.

TC wrote:

I am tempted by the idea of owning a two-in-one rifle because of the difficulties of getting another licence and the overall restriction on the number of licences in India.

Miroflex, in that case it would be wiser to go in for a Savage Hi Power. You will get more power out of the Hi Power and no extraction problem.

Cheers

TC,

I quite agree with you. A .22 Hi Power Savage would be a very interesting proposition. Cartridges are easily available in India, as indeed they are for the .22 Hornet.

I have seen one ( a Hi Power Savage Model 1899) at a dealer recently. It is fitted with a mount for a telescopic sight and is missing its backsight. The dealer says he can get one fitted. He is asking for Rs. 2,00,000 which I feel is on the higher side.

I also saw a .22 Hornet at a dealer's recently. It is a bolt action Savage and is also priced at Rs. 2,00,000. I also saw another Hornet with the same dealer, also a bolt action Savage, with a shorter barrel, for Rs. 3,50,000.

I am still looking for a Hornet or a Hi Power.

Regards.

Hi Miroflex, you said cartridges for .22 Hi Power Savage are easily available, can you please tell me some dealers who have the said rounds readily. I am badly in need of some.

Regards,
Jam