Indians For Guns

Heres what I came across at my Gunsmith friends backyard.... a veritable goldmine for a gun restorer.

We were spring cleaning(Somewhat late, ain't it?) the shop after the passing away of my friends dad.
What we found was a big pile of rusting scrap gun parts(if you call them parts!) mostly old airguns. All have been corroding outside for close to 30 years and had caught a bit of rain too. Amidst the pile I came across a number of interesting pieces:

1. A Winchester Model 1886 Lever Action. Receiver, barrel, Magazine tube with perfect follower and spring). After some primary scraping of the rust with the smooth side of an old hacksaw blade, the markings and blue started appearing. I found it to be .33WCF. No operating parts other than those mentioned.

2. A Tranter break action single shot rifle that I found out to be called a Rook Rifle after some net research. Info is around and abounding, what is lacking is good images of a complete rifle(I'm hoping someone can help with some images.) Really old and obscure and the cartridge is to my estimate, a .3-something (a .32 Long cartridge did not fit). Its chambered for a rimmed cartridge. The barrel is Hexagonal with a pair of flip up express type rear sights. Interesting manual ambidextrous extractor.

3. A Dropping block 12 bore- I could find only two makes on the net- Hopkins& Allen and Stevens. Only a severely corroded barrel and a braze-repaired receiver block could be salvaged.

4. A Double barrel of unknown make. Internal hammers- looks generic. Severely Corroded barrel and receiver only

The relics are really old and my friend has not been able to find any info on the original owners (Probably passed away by now). Obviously they are beyond unservicable but legally they could still be classed as guns- penpusher HELP!!

Rather than destroy or turn them over to the 'authorities' what I'd really like to do is to drill and plug the bores and try to restore them the best I can (Cosmetically) and perhaps get some moving parts on them just for the novelty. If this is possible, we plan to put them up as decoration for the shop. It's going to be a long drawn labor of love that can fill up my spare time.

Does this hair brained scheme infringe any Arms Act clause? Any Suggestions?

cottage chese";p="21102 wrote:Does this hair brained scheme infringe any Arms Act clause?

I hope not but if it does penpusher will buy them all.

Mack The Knife

Haha!

Mack The Knife...

Anyway... I'll post some pics if given the green light on legality....

Mehul... the konyak musket pics will be up soon. I was a little busy with other things.

:lol:Afraid your friend would be better off just destroying the entire pile.It's junk anyways and might be dangerous to restore and illegal in the process.

penpusher

Please do not destroy them. Have them officially deactivated if necessary but don't destroy them.

Mack The Knife

Cottage Cheese,

Some interessting old guns, sadly ruined.

As far as the dropping block shotgun is concerned, there were several makers on the Continent and Greener made shotguns on Martini Henry actions as well. The Germans made several as low priced Guild guns until the end of WW-1 gave them a huge surplus of Mauser actions to build the GEHA bolt actions on.

Yes, as Mack The Knife rightly suggests, get the guns deactivated and use them as wall hangers. Guns do look good on a wall, you know.

Ok guys... I couldn't resist it!... her are some pics of my find...

More pics...

Heres the dropping block 12Ga. The closest match (Looks wise) to the receiver were the Hopkins&Allen and Stevens.... Mehul this doesnt look like a Martini receiver. Its a take down type- The screw with the ring on the receiver(below the chamber area) was meant to simply quick attach the barrel. In fact the barrel is rusted half way through.

I'll take your and Mack The Knifes advice and I'll try to get them officially deactivated. As to how... its a mystery to me. Perhaps some suggestions could be helpful.

Cottagecheese,

They are not even wall hangers.Would need a lot of effort to make them that.

penpusher

Hi,

A couple of months back u were finding babudom impossible to deal with as they would not add your frends name on his fathers dealership licence. They were asking for forms which u were finding to difficult to furnish .

And to NOW the same set of officers how would u explain the great treasure find in your frends backyard. Hey you are handling firearms.....Forget what you see in the western classical movies-Winchester....? Forget the treasure you found ...it simply is ..................Un licenced weapons without numbers , without any known owners , without a valid licence ...in simple words its nothing but TROUBLE.

AC

Cottage Chese,

A little advice - please learn something about guns before you post or ask someone knowledgeable when you don't know something. There will be someone who could help over here or on other forums.

The last gun is NOT a dropping block - it is a cheap (most probably Harrington and Richardson) break open single barreled shotgun. The ONLY Dropping block shotgun that I am aware of were Greeners made on the MArtini Henry actions. The Farquharson, Heeren, The Sharps and other traditional dropping block (or "falling block" actions as they are called sometimes in the USA) were never used to build shotguns on. Grumpy could correct me if I am wrong on any of the dropping block actions being used to make shotguns but what you have labelled a "dropping block" is definitely NOT one.

Yes, I concur with the advice given to you to discard this junk. It would make a good fence post or something of the sort. Not worth deactivating at all.

Coo, what a pile of junk !
That shotgun looks rather like a high wall type action from the side but the photographs appear to show that there isn`t the length of action required to accomodate a falling block ..... and the action obstructs where any block would rise.
It`s a single shot shotgun of some de.scription......although I can`t figure out what or how from the pictures. It obviously isn`t a break barrel like an H&R. I can`t think what it might be except that although it appears that it can`t be a falling block it has to be one of some de.scription because how else could the chamber face be sealed ?
The only falling block action shotgun that I can think of offhand is the Greener GP ...... which this isn`t.

How about a rolling block action?

penpusher

mehulkamdar";p="21259 wrote:Cottage Chese,

A little advice - please learn something about guns before you post or ask someone knowledgeable when you don't know something. There will be someone who could help over here or on other forums.

The last gun is NOT a dropping block - it is a cheap (most probably Harrington and Richardson) break open single barreled shotgun. The ONLY Dropping block shotgun that I am aware of were Greeners made on the MArtini Henry actions. The Farquharson, Heeren, The Sharps and other traditional dropping block (or "falling block" actions as they are called sometimes in the USA) were never used to build shotguns on. Grumpy could correct me if I am wrong on any of the dropping block actions being used to make shotguns but what you have labelled a "dropping block" is definitely NOT one.

Yes, I concur with the advice given to you to discard this junk. It would make a good fence post or something of the sort. Not worth deactivating at all.

Hi Mehul,

I'll apologize in advance if I'd not done my home work or if I'm indulging in half baked bakwaas, but I think I must respectfully disagree with some of your points...

I can tell the difference between a break barrel and a falling-block/dropping-block or which ever is the right nomenclature. Besides I have a Harrington&Richardson 12Ga break barrel.

I put forward my question here along with a few of my assumptions, knowing there are folks here who know.

I was basing my assumption of the Martinis on that of the Martini Rifles(Peabody?) I have come across some in .303 and of course some obsolete bores. Hell...at least you know of Greeners martini shotguns... I didn't have a clue there were these kind of shotguns till I came across this piece.

I've attached a clearer picture for your perusal. Its quite clearly a 'lever actuated vertically sliding block' kind of mechanism:

A. The slots for the vertical movement of the breech block- what else, if not the case? The inside of the receiver has just one mechanical part left- the long pivoted extractor somewhat characteristic to most lever actuated falling/dropping block or whatever appropriately named actions.
B. The barrel is threaded and on a fixed axis- they are not pivoted for break action.

I'll make one quick attempt at seeing if they can be deactivated the official way...if it fails I'll take your advice and upgrade some of my bathroom plumbing. Or else (with a heavy heart), I'll return them to nature in the scrap heap.