Indians For Guns

Dear IFG pals,

I want to check which all .22 cartridges can be used in the IOF .22 sporting rifles? As to my knowledge .223, .224 all comes under the same caliber, when checked in some photos, I find the .223 and .224 are much bigger than the .22 lr cartridge.

I have read some post (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011 ... s-223-rem/), but I am still confused to know
(a) if I can use .223 with IOF .22 sporting rifle.
(b) which is the best & worst brand, price, quality cartridge for IOF .22 rifle.
(c) Highest grain of cartridge available (either local/imported) for self defense.
(d) Best brand, grain, range for best long range (say 100-200 meters).

Thanks.

Both are extremely popular rounds — .22LR is by far the most popular rimfire cartridge, and .223 is near the top (if not at the top) of the list of most popular centerfire cartridges.

There's your answer, from your own admission. There is no way you can interchange them in a single weapon. Plus, where are you going to get .223 Rem ammo in India?

StampMaster:

The IOF rifle is made for .22 Long Rifle, also called .22 LR. This is a rimfire cartridge: there is no visible primer. The priming material that ignites the powder when struck by the firing pin is in the rim itself.

.223 is very similar to the 5.56 x 45 mm NATO cartridge, is considerably more powerful and is a centerfire cartridge, with a visible primer in the center of the cartridge base.

.224 is a designation that may be in the name of several cartridges. Despite the name of the cartridge, .222 Remington, .222 Remington Magnum, .223, and the .224 cartridges generally use a bullet that is actually .224" in diameter.

On the other hand, the .22 Long Rifle uses a bullet that is .222" in diameter.

You will want to be using a .22 Long Rifle cartridge in your IOF rifle. The others are not proper for your gun, and cannot be chambered in it.

There is a significant physical difference between the two cartridges.


The one on the left (A) is the .22 Long Rifle cartridge and the one on the right (B) is the .223 Remington cartridge.
Obviously you're not going to get the one on the right to fit in a chamber cut for the one on the left. The only thing that should be fired in a rifle or handgun with a chamber cut for .22 LR will be the .22 LR cartridge. I hope this answers your question.

Thank you friends for helping me understand the cartridge. I would appreciate your help in regards to my other questions about best brands, grain and according etc.

(b) which is the best & worst brand, price, quality cartridge for IOF .22 rifle.

It depends on what you can find. I believe you will be able to find IOF .22 LR ammo in most places. Any US made .22 LR ammo would work reasonably well; CCI is very consistent. Eley (UK) makes some top of the line ammo. Wolf, SK, Lapua are good European brands.

(c) Highest grain of cartridge available (either local/imported) for self defense

If you do some searching on this forum you will find that .22LR is not recommended for self defense.
The heaviest bullet available in .22LR, as far as I know, is the Aguila Sniper Subsonic 60 grain. However, they will not stabilize in your standard .22 LR barrel with its 1 in 16 rifling.

(d) Best brand, grain, range for best long range (say 100-200 meters).

The .22 LR cartridge is not a long range cartridge. While it can fly a long distance (up to a couple of miles) when shot up in the air, it's light weight bullets are easily affected by air currents. There are many issues with shooting .22 LR over distance. Anything 50 yards and over can be a crap shoot, depending on the shooter, rifle, ammo, wind or all of the above.

There are generally three different types of .22 LR cartridges available:
1. Subsonic - under the speed of sound (speed of sound is 1,126 ft/s)
2. High velocity - generally right around 1200 ft/sec and up (most are generally in a 200 fps or so range of this figure)
3. Hyper Velocity - specialty rounds like the Aguila Super Max (1750 ft/s) or the CCI stinger (1600+ fps)

Issues with shooting .22 LR over distance:
.22 LR rifles can be very picky and you will have to experiment with different cartridges to find what your rifle likes best. 40 grain bullets will generally give the best accuracy in most guns with the standard 1 in 16 rifling twist.
Subsonic rounds lose speed quite fast and over distance they will drop a large amount from the point of aim.
High velocity rounds generally transition from supersonic to subsonic at about 50 to 75 yards from the muzzle. When this happens, the flight path of the bullet can be affected and accuracy can suffer. So ammunition that shoots great at 25 yards could quite possibly not shoot well at 50 yards.
Hyper velocity round in many cases are not very accurate to start with as many manufacturers uses 36 grain and lighter bullets to gain speed. In many cases the best stability is not achieved with the standard rifling twist rate. Wind is a huge factor with .22 LR bullets. Due to the light weight of the bullet and generally slower speeds, even a gentle wind can affect the point of impact. Standard high velocity .22 LR rounds drop about 8inches to 12 inches at 100 yards (from the point of aim, when zeroed at 25 yards).

The late A G Banks, who wrote several books on small bore i.e. .22 rimfire rifle shooting was a great proponent of this calibre as a weapon of offence and defence. In one of a series of articles published under the title "Random Writings On Rifle Shooting", written in the context of the Second World War, he stated his intention of defending himself against German paratroopers with a small bore rifle and proclaimed that any German who got within Tommy gun range of him was welcome to his scalp. A rather foolhardy claim.

miroflex wrote:The late A G Banks, who wrote several books on small bore i.e. .22 rimfire rifle shooting was a great proponent of this calibre as a weapon of offence and defence. In one of a series of articles published under the title "Random Writings On Rifle Shooting", written in the context of the Second World War, he stated his intention of defending himself against German paratroopers with a small bore rifle and proclaimed that any German who got within Tommy gun range of him was welcome to his scalp. A rather foolhardy claim.

LOL, Miroflex, you're correct. That is a rather foolhardy claim.
The German Armed Forces in WW2, including the hated SS, were superb soldiers, maybe even the best in the world at that time. Paratroopers or Fallschirmjäger were among the cream of the crop. Planning to go up against paratroopers, especially Fallschirmjäger, with a .22 LR rifle is a bit of wishful thinking.

It is apparent that AG Banks never tried it in real life as he lived to write the article.

Hi XL_Target,

Banks' book, "Random Writings on Rifle Shooting" was published during the Second World War on Wartime Economy Standards. The book perhaps aimed at boosting the morale of the Home Guards who were armed with a motley assortment of weapons, ranging from pitchforks to sporting weapons like shotguns and rifles. Many of them carried small bore rifles or miniature rifles as they were called.

Banks or "AG" as he was popularly known, had participated in many International events for small bore as well as big bore rifles and was well known at Bisley. He was a staunch proponent of the .22 rimfire cartridge and perhaps sometimes allowed his enthusiasm to get the better of him.

His main thesis was that the small bore cartridge should not be dismissed as a toy merely because of the small diameter of the bullet and that it was being denied its rightful place in the scheme of things by the authorities in Great Britain, particularly by the War Office. The Germans and the Americans, Banks claimed, had not neglected the .22 and had reaped the reward by having a nation of trained riflemen, ready to spring to arms.

Banks particularly admired the rifles put on the market by leading American manufacturers which sold for five pounds fitted with telescopic sights. He felt that major British manufacturers like BSA and Vickers should take steps in this direction.

Banks carried out tests on the hydraulic effect of the .22 bullet using bars of soap as targets and pointed out the lethal effects of the small bullet. Hitler never put Banks's theories to the test and shied away from invading Britain. It is difficult to say what part Banks's exhortations in favour of the .22 played in Hitler's downfall.

Regards.