Indians For Guns

Hi all, I have been looking for an imported rifle to replace my IOF .315. I have recently been offered the following rifles: .375 Mannlicher Schonauer for Rs. 1,75,000;
.355 Mannlicher Schonauer for Rs. 1,50,000; .404 vJeffery for Rs. 1,25,000 and a .275-3000 Savage for Rs. 80,000. I have not seen these weapons yet as they are in a different city. Are the prices fair? Any comments about availability of cartridges either new or old stock? I would also be grateful for general advice about buying of rifles and availability of newer rifles vis-a-vis older, obsolete or obsolescent weapons. Regards.

All the fire arms you've mentioned need ammo that are most difficult to obtain. The dealers may have kept some old ammo to give away with the fire arm which could be minimum 60 yrs old. The .375M&S is actually 9.5x57mm M&S, .355 is a British designation for 9x56mm M&S and the Savage is actually 250/3000 as this was the first cartridge designed to cross the 3000fps. I feel the prices may come down drastically once you approach the seller with cash if at all you intend buying any of these.

Marksman

While I cannot tell you what's available in India, both the .355 (9x56 M-S) and .375 (9.5x57 M-S) are obsolete cartridges and no longer loaded by the ammunition manufacturers. The .250-300 Savage is still being loaded in the US. Again, I can't tell you if any stock has been recently imported into India.
The .404 Jeffery has recently experienced a revival and is being loaded both in Europe and the US. But it will be expensive if you can find it, or can find some dealer who will import it for you; and not very pleasant to shoot.
Good luck!

Why don't you go in for a 30-06, Winchester, Model 70

Hi Ganesh Nayak,

I am looking for a low to medium priced rifle. A .30-06 Winchester Model 70 is likely to be an expensive proposition. If you know of any going for a reasonable price, please send me a PM.

Regards.

Hi Marksman,

Thanks for your advice. I am told that 9x57 Mannlicher is not too difficult to obtain. What do you suggest I should offer for these rifles to clinch a deal?

Regards.

Hi Two Rivers,

Hunting (shikar) is effectively non existent in India. Rifles are usually kept for self defence or for sentimental reasons in India. For this purpose my present .315 rifle or a .30-30 or the .250-3000 Savage or the good old .44-40 Winchester is more than adequate.

One may rarely be permitted to hunt a man eating tiger or leopard if it is so declared by the Government. I have however a personal preference for heavier calibres or big bores and that is the reason for my interest in the .404 Jeffery. One is unlikely to do much shooting n India except at the firing range if one is a member of a rifle club. The heavy recoil of the .404 Jeffery and the high cost of cartridges becomes secondary in such a scenario. Also big bores see less use and are subjected to much less wear and tear than lighter and medium bores. Unfortuntely most of the better big bore double barrel rifles have been bought by a buyer working on behalf of Westley Richards.

Regards.

Why not an IOF .30-06 that could be brand new and relatively inexpensive?

BTW, the .375 MS cost that you mention is rather on the high side. I would peg it much lower in the market.

Hi Katana,

I find that the workmanship of IOF rifles leaves much to be desired. Hence the need for a change of make.

Regards.

Hi Katana,

How much would you peg the .375 Mannlicher at?

Regards.

Hi,

I have had a chance to see all the rifles mentioned above by me in my first post. The Mannlichers are in excellent condition and so is the Savage. The Jeffery is in a not so good condition. I am perplexed and do not know how to go ahead. I would welcome any advice or suggestions which fellow members may like to give.

Regards.

Hi !

No doubt imported rifles have better balance and workmanship. But you would be ill-advised to buy one, if the ammunition is not being manufactured currently...or is difficult to obtain. Never trust the dealers ammo stock (of outdated bores) ...as you can pull a trigger at a vital moment and find no answering explosion of the cartridge. Even with a wild boar, such a mishap can result in a fatal accident.
These handicaps would far outweigh the generic advantages of an imported firearm. So my sincere advice would be fo you to spread your search wider and go for an imported .30/06 rifle. it will be your best solution.

Hi Absinroy,

I agree that a hang fire or a misfire against a charging wild boar can have dangerous or even fatal consequences. Your advice is very well meant and is equally well taken.

Kynoch is loading ammunition for many obsolete bores although not for the 9mm Mannlicher Schoenauer. More later.

Regards.

My two paise worth.

Except for the .404 J, rest of all are probably worth very well under Rs.50K. Wall hangers and nothing else as Two Rivers already mentioned.

Have the .404 checked by a competent person and if he gives the green signal, haggle with the price. Another choice is to take very clear photos of the rifle, action, barrel etc and post them here so that some of our experienced members can give their assessment.


You might have seen the IOF .30-06 thread. With some little investment, it seems to do rather well.

Best-
Vikram

Each of us is entitled to his own opinion and judgment. Try selling any imported rifle of any calibre except 30-06, 270, 8X57, 7MM and see for yourself. Dealers would pay you a pittance. Many years ago H&H 375 bolt action by Holland and Holland became available with Atma Singh Gujaral & Sons Meerut. It was in 95 percent condition and very reasonably priced. I was very tempted to buy it after exchanging my Remington 30-06. Since i don`t hunt any more for decades now, the rifle for me has only reassurance value. So I thought why not have H&H rifle. Ammo in those days was 250 a piece while 30-06 was 100 per round.The arms dealer happened to be my friend of long standing. His response was that why I am selling a horse to buy a donkey. Frankly I was quite miffed with him. Anyhow I let the matter pass. Few years later another 375 H&H Calibre rifle by Winchester came for sale with him. It was post 1964 model and in 99 percent condition.These large bores get fired rarely.By that time the 375 ammo was retailing for 400 apiece. Look at the woes of the seller. No dealer was ready to pay more than 1.00 Lakhs.The vendor went from pillar to post to sell that rifle including Kanpur, Agra. Haryana and Chandigarh. The vendor who is a well known small time neta ji of Meerut got fed up and sold the weapon for 1.10 lakhs to a dealer in Delhi.While one can sell 30-06 overnight at very competitive price. To cap it all you can buy anytime fresh ammo for 30-06 anywhere in the country. It is always better to have 100 percent reliable weapon with 100 percent reliable fresh ammo.In self defense situation the first shot is the most crucial.The second shot may not occur.