Indians For Guns

This was a news on NBC not sure whether its subterfuge anti gun news but still wanted to share and seek opinion on this
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39759366/Documen ... or_Decades

The manufacturer of the most popular hunting rifle in the world has been aware of potential safety problems with the gun since before it went on the market—60 years ago. This, according to newly uncovered documents.

The documents, including memos and drawings by the gun’s inventor, show company officials discussing the potential problem, as well as whether a design change is worth “the high expenditure required to make the conversion.”

The Remington 700, which is manufactured in Ilion, N.Y., by the Madison, N.C.-based Remington Arms Company, has been wildly successful among amateur hunters as well as police and the military. The company says it has sold more than five million guns in the 700 series, which debuted with the Remington 721 after World War II.

But the rifle has also been the subject of thousands of customer complaints and more than 75 lawsuits alleging it is prone to firing without the trigger being pulled. At least two dozen deaths and more than 100 serious injuries have been linked to inadvertent discharges of Remington 700s.

The 700 had safety issues, before it went to market ?
I just can't believe that.........Must be the anti's at work......

M.

ngrewal wrote:This was a news on NBC not sure whether its subterfuge anti gun news but still wanted to share and seek opinion on this
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39759366/Documen ... or_Decades

The manufacturer of the most popular hunting rifle in the world has been aware of potential safety problems with the gun since before it went on the market—60 years ago. This, according to newly uncovered documents.

The documents, including memos and drawings by the gun’s inventor, show company officials discussing the potential problem, as well as whether a design change is worth “the high expenditure required to make the conversion.”

The Remington 700, which is manufactured in Ilion, N.Y., by the Madison, N.C.-based Remington Arms Company, has been wildly successful among amateur hunters as well as police and the military. The company says it has sold more than five million guns in the 700 series, which debuted with the Remington 721 after World War II.

But the rifle has also been the subject of thousands of customer complaints and more than 75 lawsuits alleging it is prone to firing without the trigger being pulled. At least two dozen deaths and more than 100 serious injuries have been linked to inadvertent discharges of Remington 700s.

First, NBC is not a credible news source in my opinion any more. They have done much to damage the social fabric here by printing much misinformation about the Martin/Zimmerman case, including the editing of the 911 call to police to make it sound like Zimmerman was making a racist decision and the resultant actions. At least one person lost their job over that one instance, as an example.


Secondly, I do not know if the triggers and safetys are bad, (they are also claiming the 870 and 1100 shotguns are defective now as well), but this is why the rule exists that you do not point loaded guns at people or anything else you do not wish to destroy.

Anyway, I personally am going to hold off judgment until I hear some facts from some place that is not a proven liar with an agenda, and continue to not point loaded/unloaded guns at things or people regardless of who makes the safety.

with the 700 the safety issue was brought out decades ago, however these days it has improved much with the new probox etc,

Here's Remington's response to this:

http://www.remington700.tv/#/home

So I bought another one for wifery in .223. There is a old saying , you can fool some one few times and fool many once . Last 60 years the rifle been through a lot of scrutiny and speaks for itself.

Got permission ....



The end - Haji

My goodness!!

I am a proud rem. 700 owner and never had any problems till now. I am now a bit apprehensive now, wishing i had never read this.

Having even the slightest doubt about ones gun can ruin performance.

I owned a 721 (predecessor to the 700) in 300 H&H for quite some time; never had any issues with it or its safety.

However, there does seem to be evidence that there was a problem with the original trigger design; a problem that could have easily been corrected, but the threat of which was disregarded. Of course, once many of them were sold, a liability issue would have been sufficient to cause severe financial problems for Remington.

I cannot say what modifications, if any, have been made to address the issue.

I will say that the old military style of safety, where a positive block of the striker/firing pin assembly serves as the safety, is my preference. If you look at the original M98 Mauser, where a wing engages grooves in the cocking piece, you will understand what I refer to with this comment. Of course, as the years passed, even M98 civilian Mauser actions were altered. The safety was removed from the bolt sleeve to make it appear sleek and trim, and the safety became a blocking arrangement on the trigger. This made the sear engagement of the cocking piece the only safety. The Remington 700, along with many other bolt action designs, follows this example, which I consider a bad one.

I don't think that the M700 problem was pervasive, but evidently in some individual examples, it could happen, so I do consider it a possibility and a weakness.

Of course, these sorts of issues do get seized upon by the enemies of RKBA for political issues. Like the Treyvon Martin case, I don't see what the Remington issue has to do with RKBA at all. If Remington is culpable, they must pay, and if not, then they should not have to. This is no different from any other company where allegedly defective design or manufacture causes personal injury. If someone has made something bad or done something bad, then they should have to answer to the law for it.

We have not outlawed automobiles or airplanes because of defective manufacture (anyone remember the DeHavilland Comet, the first commercial jet?), and there is no reason to do so in the case of firearms or any other manufactured product.

I am a proud to own Rem. 700 in .223 and naver have a problum with it and i am agree with Haji.

Here is mine Rem.700 SPS Vermint




Baljit

As Mark points out, NBC is not a very reliable source. These are the same guys who just got caught, red handed, editing the Zimmerman-Martin shooting's 911 call to make ZImmerman look like a racist. If they told me the sky was blue, I would have to stop and evaluate that statement.

Please watch Remington's response as posted by rcdoma. It pretty much tells the story.

There is nothing wrong with the model 700, the model 870 or the model 1100, no matter what a clearly anti-gun source like NBC says. It's very simple, if you don't want you Remington product to fire inadvertently, keep your finger off the trigger when you release the safety and don't mess with the internal screw settings if you don't know what you are doing. There are also a lot of people out there who, the moment they get a new gun, will take the trigger assembly apart and start stoning or trying to change the geometry of the engagement surfaces. The gun community has a name for them, it is "Bubba". Don't let Bubba touch your gun.

Did you notice the name raj chowdhuri? USMS scout sniper.
Surname puts it on the subcontinent but raj makes it likely indian origin. Do any of our US based members know anything about him?

Maybe make him join the forum?

"It is difficult to foolproof anything, fools being so ingenious." Also, "the more complex a mechanism, the more chances for something to go wrong.". A combined trigger/safety mechanism is not the ideal design choice. Period.

Both sides in that debate are right, and both are full of crap. Though the triggers of the 721 series and the 700 are similar in function, they differ in construction. Originally the sear was split lengthwise, two stamped parts, one being the "safety cam". This allowed considerable wear due to the narrow sear. In 1968 a full width sear, a plated sintered part with a stamped and hardened floating "connector", replaced the two-part design. It is this connector that conceivably is the cause of the problem.
I eperienced a failure with a PX-100 pistol in .221 Remington, when the owner put a round in the chamber, bolt open, but safety engaged, and handed me the gun. I closed the bolt,took careful aim, squeezed the trigger, and nothing happened. Glanced back at the owner, one eye on the bear, and he whispered "safety". Took aim again. Facing away from us at an angle, the bear offered the perfect target for a shot behind the ear. Pushed the safety off just before settling on target, trigger finger outside the guard, when the gun went off. Repeatably.
Lots of citizens are in the habit of pulling the trigger after putting the gun on safe. Just to be sure the safety works. When they then push the safety off, the gun may fire; because the tolerances in the trigger/safety mechanism were such that the trigger could not reset. I believe this was the cause of the better part of the accidents.
When you put out a rifle with an adjustable trigger, and it comes out of the box with a seven-pound pull, you should expect the owner to get his screwdrivers out. And you should expect at least have of them to screw things up. Even if you had provided detailed instructions, which you did'nt, and which half would have ignored.

If Remington's M700 had such a foolproof, good, and safe trigger/safety, why did they recently change the design? Surely not to save money, like their other "safety" improvement, the elimination of the bolt lock.

Shooter,
Re: Raj Chowdhuri:
Never heard of him before this but this is what I have found out about him.

He lives in TN. He is a former Recon marine. He is currently an instructor at HCT/T1G.The parent company of T1G (Cerberus) owns AAC, Remington, DPMS. T1G does Military training and HCT does the civilian training at T1G's site in Crawfordsville, AR just outside Memphis.
T1G
HCT


Some of the places that Raj Chowdhuri appears in:
http://www.graffitiofwar.com/maxim-magazine.html
SWAT Magazine - http://digital.swatmag.com/SWAT/2011/SWAT1103/?Page=71 (Second para, page 71)
Video on Raj - http://www.youtube.com/watch%20v=mPeaQ9 ... plpp_video

- Possible Bangla Facebook site -http://bn-in.facebook.com/people/Raj-Ch ... 3188710049

Lots of citizens are in the habit of pulling the trigger after putting the gun on safe. Just to be sure the safety works.

You're serious? Just to be sure the safety works?
You gotta be kidding me? People actually pull the trigger when they know there is a cartridge in the chamber (regardless of safety setting)? Please note that I am not disagreeing with you here. Just totally astonished.
No wonder all these people keep shooting themselves when they are "just cleaning the gun".

Man! I have been always taught to keep my finger off the trigger till I am on the target. This has been drummed into my head repeatedly, ever since I was young. It's so ingrained that I have a hard time doing dry fire drills. I have to stop and check the chamber repeatedly, just to ease my mind. I'm just surprised because none of the people that I shoot with or around ever touch the trigger on their guns when they are not on the target. If they do, they will get yelled at by everyone.

Dear two rivers,
Thanks for your reply; makes sense.
Though i dont trust crap media, neither do i trust the corporate propaganda.
The truth lies somewhere between the two accounts.
Remington were doing a good job in the video till the sentence "out of all the lawsuits, more of half didnt go to court (?out of court settlements) and remington won a majority of the ones that did (good lawyers/what about the ones they lost)"

Thanks XL_arget