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My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:49 am
by timmy
Gentlemen:

I got my Bride to snap a few pics, so that I could tardily fulfill my promise of posting a pic of my recently acquired M91/30 Mosin Nagant. This one is a 1938 Izhevsk Arsenal. (The other major arsenal at this time was in Tula.) My version has been refurbished in Ukraine. (Recall that arms shipments from Russia are not allowed at this time.) In the refurbishing process, this rifle has a post WW2 stock and the barrel has been recrowned. All the iron has been reblued and, interestingly, it has an old M1891 model cocking piece with the large knob. One wonders about the history of this rifle!

(I have posted these pictures in portrait format, so I can get a bigger picture in the posting. Please rotate to see it in landscape.)

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I figured that I would include two other Mosin Nagant rifles in this post. (Besides these three, I have three barreled actions.) This picture is of my Finnish M39. The M39 is the only bolt action rifle in military bolt action competition that can shoot with the Swiss K31 and the Swedish M1896 rifles. (It is only fair to remind you that in these competitions, one must shoot surplus or commercial ammunition, and that Swiss 7.5 mm ammo is ALL match grade -- and priced accordingly!) When the Finns took their independence upon the fall of the Tsarist Muscovite Empire, they had no arsenal to manufacture rifles for their army. But, they had a considerable number of M1891 Mosin Nagant rifles that were in storage for Tsarist garrisons. The Finns used these and then began to collect M1891s from former WW1 combatants, such as Germany, Austria, and Poland. Regarding Poland, the Poles adopted the M1898 Mauser, and since the Finns most likely enemy was the Soviet Union and the Poles, Germany, each nation adopted the likely enemy's arm for obvious reasons, and traded their stocks.

The Finns began by repairing the M1891 with new stocks and other fittings, and then began modifying the M1891 to fit their needs. Recall that the Mosin Nagant was designed to equip a conscript army of nearly medieval peasants, so it needed to be simple and reliable. Also, Russian and later Soviet army tactics were largely comprised of mass infantry charges and attacks, and the bayonet was emphasized. In fact, where other armies numbered their size in "rifles", the Russians did so in "bayonets". Even well into the Soviet era, rifles came with bayonets that were never intended to be removed and were very nearly permanently attached.

The Finns, on the other hand, had a small population and, like the Swiss, emphasized well-trained troops who specialized in excellent marksmanship, rather than suicidal mass charges. Indeed, the world record holding sniper of all time was Simo Häyhä (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä) The beauty of the Mosin Nagant rifle is that it was amenable to both uses -- it was and is highly accurate. After a number of modifications, the Finns developed the M39 rifle which retained only the receiver, bolt, and buttplate of the original M1891. One of the key points in its accuracy potential is the careful bedding each M39 stock provided.

My M39 is made on an Izhevsk Arsenal receiver that I believe was made in the 1800s, although the tang stamp is not clear on this. The Finnish heavy barrel is stamped 1944 and the rifle shoots much better than I can.

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This last rifle is a long-running project of mine, and I'm glad to say that I just found a stock for it. Stocks for M1891s in the USA are pretty much made of unobtainium nowadays! This rifle is an 1896 Tula version, and as you can see, I have a way to go as far as restoring it. The stock is interesting, as it is a WW2 refit stock. These were made to get old M1891 versions shooting again. I presume that these older versions were then issued to internal gendarme type forces or maybe shipped to partisans behind the German lines.

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Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:08 am
by xl_target
Very nice, Tim
Are you planning to bring these along to the IFG meet?

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:31 am
by timmy
I'm not sure that the M1891 will be ready, but I'm sure itching to touch off the 91/30!

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:36 pm
by winnie_the_pooh
Timmy,

As always a very educative post.It is nice to put a face to the name.You are obviously a man who wears many hats,quite literally :mrgreen:

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:08 pm
by xl_target
timmy wrote:I'm not sure that the M1891 will be ready, but I'm sure itching to touch off the 91/30!
I'd be more interested in the M39. I have read so much about the Winter War in Finland and the glorious defense put up by the Finns that just to handle that rifle would be fun.

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:37 pm
by Vikram
winnie_the_pooh wrote:Timmy,

As always a very educative post.
+1 :cheers:


Best-
Vikram

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:58 am
by timmy
I'd be more interested in the M39. I have read so much about the Winter War in Finland and the glorious defense put up by the Finns that just to handle that rifle would be fun.
He he!

There's no fooling the palate of a connoisseur! But be careful, XL, because you might just fall in love! (Remember that Elvin Bishop sings about this!) I confess that when I watch weekend boxing on Spanish TV (There's nothing quite like a good Mexican boxer!), I often get my M39 out and hold it during the show. I know it sounds a bit strange, but there's always been something pleasing about the tactile sensation of holding a nice piece of steel...

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:01 am
by xl_target
Timmy,
Did you know that Polish cadets were trained with basically a Mosin lookalike but in .22.
I believe it is a single shot rifle in .22LR built right after WW2.
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Centerfire systems is offering them for $249.
http://centerfiresystems.com/rifle-pol22.aspx

ENM Sports is offering them for $275 (all matching numbers)
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http://www.enmmovers.com/wz48.html

These are really cool looking and from what I have read about them, they are very accurate.

Rimfirecentral Thread

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:27 am
by timmy
XL, thanks for that tip! I will check it out. Yes, I did know about it, but haven't really gotten into .22 trainers too much, other than the old BSA Martini Henry rifles from Australia. I would so love to have one of those! The Poles also made their own version of the Mosin Nagant in carbine form. They are supposed to be very nicely made, but I haven't had the urge for one of those yet.

My big dream is to get a Polish M91/98/25 cavalry carbine. They were converted to 8x57 (the Poles shared the same military rifle round with the Germans, just as the Finns did with the Soviets) and are scarce as hen's teeth.

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It's just the history of the thing, I guess. I do have a Radom WZ 29 (similar to and derived from the M98). Recall that the Poles received the Danzig arsenal tooling from the Germans as part of war reparations. (Something like 65% of the national wealth was destroyed in WW1, due to the fighting between Germany and Austria-Hungary on one side and the Russians on the other. Then, just 20 years later, 85% of the national wealth was destroyed by the fighting of WW2.) Anyway, the Poles moved the tooling to the city of Radom, where most of the military arms were made from that point.

The picture has been clipped (do a right click on it to open it up fully), but essentially, the Poles cut down M1891 Mosin Nagants they had inherited from the Muscovite state, and modified the stock to take Mauser bayonets and stock bands. That's where the "98" in the model designation comes from. The 91 comes from the original Mosin Nagant, and the 25 was the year this rifle was issued.

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:09 pm
by dr.jayakumar
dear timmy,
did you buy all these from military surplus or from locals.looks very very well maintained.
hope you don't mind did you serve the the french or the spanish army by anyway?i have never seen those hats before in my life.
great collection friend..i don't know how your wife is bearing with you??/(must be lucky)
regards
dr.jk

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:22 pm
by Baljit
Hello Timmy, nice toys you have there, "old is gold" :cheers:

Baljit

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:59 pm
by timmy
Dr. J: The M91/30 (first pic) I bought from Cabela's, a large chain of sporting goods stores. They bought a large lot of imported rifles and were selling them on sale before Christmas. The Finnish M39 was purchased from Military Gun Supply, a surplus store in Ft Worth Tx. The barreled action of the M91 was also bought at Military Gun Supply (I bought 4 of them in all, for $5 a piece) and I recently purchased the stock on an eBay auction.

Yes, my Wife puts up with my guns and she suggested I go down and buy the M91/30. Of course, I had just bought her a new sewing machine, so she was in a very good mood. In these things, gun budgets in the marriage relationship must be divided into thirds, at the very least. At least, this is my theory. One must buy jewelry or other lasting things for the spouse at a 2:1 ratio (2 for the wife, 1 for the husband) at a minimum. This eliminates a lot of the static men get over buying guns, I think!

Thanks, Baljit -- they are fun!

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:43 am
by Hammerhead
Mr.timmy you follow my secret formula - I buy one rifle for me , one for wife ( little expensive one 8) ) and tell her to put it in her side of safe. Then I move the ( getting old ones ) to my side of the safe and every one seems to be happy :roll: . Nice hats though - Haji

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:17 am
by Sakobav
Nice one timmy thanks for sharing

best

Re: My new M91/30 Mosin Nagant & a couple other Mosins

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:45 am
by dilipvp
:cpix:
same guns in 'enemy at the gates' movie. :)

regards,