Indians For Guns

All right amigos nay sayers on this board check this new great invention out...now every one can eat their heart out...

Not sure if this was posted before here saw it on another forum so cross posting it

Some one even scanned the picture

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... start=1160

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 740063.cms


TIRUCHI: The Ordnance Factory of Tiruchi (OFT) has designed and developed an indigenous assault rifle matching the specifications of the AK47.

"When put into use by our armed forces and other security agencies, the rifle will be recognized as pride of India. It has been indigenously developed and has all the features of AK-47,'' said A K Prabhakar, OFT general manager, in an interaction with reporters on the sidelines of OFT Day celebrations. OFT, one among 41 such factories in the country, was established 45 years ago on the outskirts of the city.


To mark the contribution of the Tiruchi factory in developing the rifle, officials have decided to christen it "Trichy Assault Rifle,'' Prabhakar said. Field trials have been done for the 7.62mm caliber rifle with a range of 400 metres. "The rifle has been successfully tried by the Indian Army,'' Prabhakar said. It features a foldable butt and boasts of night vision device besides telescopic day vision system.

OFT has also developed a hand-held multi-shell launcher. The weapon of 38mm calibre with a range of 400 metres could fire six shells at a time. It could be used for firing grenades and tear gas shells.

Prabhakar said this was the first time that OFT was coming out with an "internal security weapon", or a riot control device in common parlance. "One batch of the device has been supplied to CRPF and many states have evinced interest in buying it for their police force,'' he said.

Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAAP), another ordnance unit and the only one in the country to produce anti-tank projectiles, has also received overwhelming response for its indigenous anti-submarine rockets.

HAPP general manager B Pugazhendi said the Indian navy had placed bulk orders for the six-kilometre range anti-submarine rockets named RGB 60 developed by HAPP.

HAPP had dispatched 12 units of RGB 12, another version of the anti-submarine rockets, to the Navy last year. "With inhouse research and development efforts, HAPP has also developed 120mm caliber and 125mm calibre MK-II anti-tank projectiles,'' Pugazhendi said.

HAPP has chalked out a modernization plan for enhancing the production of MK-II projectiles. "Very soon, the blueprint for modernization will be submitted to the ordnance factory board that will in turn forward it to defence ministry for clearance,'' he said.

400 meters range ? Sounds like it's chambered in 7.62 Soviet which I don't believe we produce.

Ashok

Thats not correct.. OFB is producing a copy of AK 47 called A-7

http://ofbindia.nic.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/21.htm

Cheers
MSandhu

Interesting find navi,

Another uninspired design.... much overdue as usual.

If you actually take a look at it's structure, its an FAL...or rather an SLR 1A adapted (possibly scaled down lengthwise)to 7.62mmx39mm. Obviously they've dispensed with the mainspring housed in the stock and moved it to the receiver just like in the FN FAL Para (FAL 50)...likewise the resulting folding stock appears to be a clone of the FN. The pistol grip is a plain FN affair common to FAL, CAL, FNC, MINIMI and INSAS LMG. The foresight gas plug appears to be the basic SLR type. ...with the forestock...well looks like Mr.Plastic guy at IOF has been at it again....
The fancy looking ventilated scope rail mount is rather dull and looks very break friendly.

The Brazilian IMBEL has been doing this with the 5.56x45 since the 1990's with the MD 2 and the MD -97. They found the 5.56mm to be troublesome with the standard FAL tipping bolt, and they had to drastically alter the innards to a rotating bolt design. It'll be interesting to see what kind of bolt locking the Trichy AR has.

Typically, the bedpan mechanics seem to regard a 'foldable-butt' and a night sight a red mark triumph of human enterprise and technology.... obviously the less than well informed media and chest thumping individuals will lap it up....makes me laugh.

Also...what is the point of this exercise? First we consider 7.62X51 obsolete and perhaps ineffective... Ah! 7.62x39 is the answer... no wait... 5.56x45 is the state of art lethal bullet...but then there is the 5.56x30 very effective against terrorists who wear bullet proof jackets... but we all know the 6mm...or was that 6.5mm is going to be the answer to all the problems of the state.... hey take a look at this 7.62x39 rifle from Trichy... its more lethal than AK47 because the gun is shaped differently...er... but the BSF wants more 9mm SMGs because current 9mm SMGs are not lethal enough....with the MX4, the terrorists have no chance whatsoever.... and so on.

While the 7.62x39 is proving to be a pretty useful round is the R&D cost justified?

regards,
cc

Successful trial by Indian Army....

Give me a break....Why not just manufacture the AK47 .....properly if I may add.......

Call me sarcastic...but it will take a miracle to convert me onto Indian designed and manufactured infantry weapons.....

M.

lazybones wrote:400 meters range ? Sounds like it's chambered in 7.62 Soviet which I don't believe we produce.

Ashok

Hey Ashok,

Long time no tippity tap...!

We do produce the 7.62x39 cartridge...though with a rather amusing antecedent. We reverse-engineered it. With such a warm Indo-soviet/Russian relationship what could have been so difficult to effect a technology transfer for something as basic and low tech as a cartridge? I do remember some years back reading a local rag that carried the periodic and mundane press release of the IOF's achievements... the clowns seemed to have been pretty proud of the reverse engineering effort....what superlatives they used...

Obviously the jokers also made an corresponding rifle - the A7 as msandhu pointed out ...well... "made" is a rather generous word.... the bloody sods simply made a shoddy AKM clone with some 'refinements' of dubious value. Think of the logistics nightmare.

regards,
cc

TSR seems a good copy!nothing new for them,used to coping since childhood.

It will all depend how good the weapon is .. If its good, reliable, rugged, accurate and lethal then there should be nothing wrong with it though having all the above qualities in an OFB product are doubtful..
Cheers
MSandhu

The Ordnance Factory of Tiruchi (OFT) has designed and developed an indigenous assault rifle matching the specifications of the AK47.

Why would anyone spend R&D time and money to come up with a new product that has the same specifications as a 64 year old weapon? Did someone forget that the "47" in AK47 stands for 1947?
There are hundreds of weapons and weapons systems out there. If we can't think originally, can't we at least copy something a little more modern?

fantumfan2003 wrote:Give me a break....Why not just manufacture the AK47 .....properly if I may add.......

I couldn't agree more. It works, its there.
Why would anyone spend any money or time to come up with a new (notice I didn't say better) way to fire the 7.62X39 round?

If, as Cottage Cheese says, they actually spent time and money to reverse engineer the 7.62x39 round, they should take all those involved in the project, line them up and shoot them (or better yet, post them all to Bihar, ). Remember, in the rest of the world, ordinary people, many with no technical education, reload cartridges (in their homes) on a regular basis. Some of them even come up with their own Wildcat cartridges without the resources of the IOF.

You'd think that with all the engineering know-how that we have available to us in India, that someone in Trichy would have one original thought or one new idea.
Why is it that anytime our government tries to do something, they end up pissing on the people's backs and telling everyone that it's raining.

msandhu wrote:It will all depend how good the weapon is .. If its good, reliable, rugged, accurate and lethal then there should be nothing wrong with it though having all the above qualities in an OFB product are doubtful..
Cheers
MSandhu

Not directing this at you MSandhu but what is it with the establishment here to tout the word 'lethal' so generously? Weapons by their very nature are meant to be lethal and appending that description to a weapon is as redundant as advertising a ship that can float. I mean even a sling shot is lethal in many conditions.

regards,
cc

A lethal weapon is a weapon that actually works..just like a ship that actually floats..lol.. So it will be a big achievement for them..
Cheers
MSandhu

CC

I hope my memory is in order on this one. The first AK47 used by Indian Army SF were imported from Rumania for use in IPKF ops. Amongst other things our forces discovered that the single shot SLR (Indian copy of the full auto FN FAL) was inadequate in CQB situations, some SLRs were converted to 3 shot burst fire but that did'nt do the trick. Really can't be sure of this but I think I did read that our SF used dead enemies AKs and found them to be just the weapon they wanted. And that's how we got our first AKs. An Osprey book, Special Forces from India and Pakistan has this info I think.

And yes this Indo-Soviet relationship also needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. The Russians never gave us very good weaponry, they gave us their regular hardware and not the cutting edge stuff. Situation now is worse after the USSR broke up. The Russian want money first for everything........

M.

cottage cheese wrote: We do produce the 7.62x39 cartridge...though with a rather amusing antecedent. We reverse-engineered it. With such a warm Indo-soviet/Russian relationship what could have been so difficult to effect a technology transfer for something as basic and low tech as a cartridge? I do remember some years back reading local rag that carried the periodic and mundane press release of the IOF's achievements... the clowns seemed to have been pretty proud of the reverse engineering effort....what superlatives they used...

Obviously the jokers also made an corresponding rifle - the A7 as msandhu pointed out ...well... "made" is a rather generous word.... the bloody sods simply made a shoddy AKM clone with some 'refinements' of dubious value. Think of the logistics nightmare.

regards,
cc

-- Fri Mar 25, 2011 0:38 --

I think the whole world must have gone through this 7.62x51 - 5.56x45 - 7.62x39 musical chair. We were just a bit late in starting our own musical chair that's all.

When we were briefed on the INSAS and 5.56 system in the NCC we were told (circa 1988) that the new trend was to make an enemy combatant a casualty and not kill him.......Do not really know if that's the reason every one switched to 5.56x45.

Recent examples have shown the 5.56 to be inadequate. There must be a good amount of confusion on the matter because one modern Special Forces weapon system has models for all three cartridges....

The SCAR................ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR

M.

cottage cheese wrote: Also...what is the point of this exercise? First we consider 7.62X51 obsolete and perhaps ineffective... Ah! 7.62x39 is the answer... no wait... 5.56x45 is the state of art lethal bullet...but then there is the 5.56x30 very effective against terrorists who wear bullet proof jackets... but we all know the 6mm...or was that 6.5mm is going to be the answer to all the problems of the state.... hey take a look at this 7.62x39 rifle from Trichy... its more lethal than AK47 because the gun is shaped differently...er... but the BSF wants more 9mm SMGs because current 9mm SMGs are not lethal enough....with the MX4, the terrorists have no chance whatsoever.... and so on.

While the 7.62x39 is proving to be a pretty useful round is the R&D cost justified?

regards,
cc

Hi fantumfan,

The first AKs officially in Indian service were rather oddly, Polish KBK's (AK47-S 3rd Model clone) .... then came second hand East German MPiKM's....then Russian AKM's , then Romanian PM.Md90's ...then Bulgarian AR's & AR-1's...and so on.

Oh come off it bhai...there's hardly anything cutting edge about the 7.62x39 pop. If they let us manufacture MiGs and Tanks whats so cloak&dagger about AK pops...

I think the full auto SLR's used by our folks in Sri Lanka are actually SLR1C's... essentially full auto ( and perhaps with FN derived burst mechanisms) SLRs originally meant to serve as a permanent port firing weapon in our BMP's. Some standard SLR 1A's also appear to have been modified to burst fire by field armorers.

I believe a major factor in selection of the 5.56mm round is economics.... more pops for the buck ... ah!!

regards,
cc

HI CC: Long time. Many thanks to you and mss for bringing me up to date - I was referring to the cartridge .
I was thinking about the time when we bought 35,000 ARs from the Bulgarians (the ones with the black furniture and corrugated finish magazines that one sees with the CISF at the airports) and then engaged in much gnashing of teeth and renting of fabric because we'd forgotten to buy ammo.
That import took a couple of years more after which the ARs began to be issued in homeopathic doses.
Good to hear we necked down our 7.62 Nato (probably with a hacksaw ) and can now claim to be producing something that can win us WW 2 I'll bet you all the Coffee you an drink for life at Koshys that they've grossly underpowered it as well
Picked up an extra copy of Michael Hodges's AK 47, The Story of the People's Gun. Shall mail it to you when I hit the local Post office next.

Ashok