Indians For Guns

I love to own one....

http://www.african-hunter.com/HatariTim ... xpress.htm

Danish

Neither do the great Elephant herds walk the plains of Africa, nor does the mighty Indian Bison or Rhino pose any challenge to the sportsman. Only memories of an era gone by remain.

Today's American hunter used a 510 grain .458 Win bullet to down an African Elephant for a princely sum of US $ 25,000 as trophy fee.

Professional African back up hunters only use a .577 or .500 Express doubles in case the client wounds an animal.

There are more 600 NE rifles being built today than ever were in the days of the Raj. All of the British names build them in small numbers, so do all of the German, Italian and Austrian double rifle makers. In the USA Searcy makes doubles and Hein make single shots on a Farquharson type action. Indeed, the joke is that there are more big bore rifles made every year than there are buffalo, elephant or hippo permoits available in all of Africa.

And, there are the recoil junkies (no offense meant at all with this term) who build even more powerful rifles like the 606 Mammoth, 600 OK etc.

Shahid, you are completely wrong in saying that the 458 Winchester is the most used round in Africa - it acquired a bad reputation in the 1970s when Jack Lott shot a buffalo several times and was gored by it, nearly dying from his injuries. These days the most popular would be the 375 H&H and the 404 Jeffery among hunters with bolt action rifles. And few PHs can afford double rifles - the price of one of these would be close to a year's income for some PHs. Most make do with tuned Brno/CZ rifles or custom rifles by various South African makers like Sabi etc. There might be the odd PH who has inherited a double from an ancestor or found a bargain somewhere but I really doubt that any PH could afford to commission a new 500 or 577 double for himself at today's prices. Indeed, if you go through the African Hunter website, there is a detailed article about the PH training programme in Zimbabwe and the rifles used there, their performance etc. Check it out - it would be revealing in more ways than one.

Cheers!

375 H & H is used a lot for sure. Winchester does make the model 70 Safari Express and so do a lot of other manufacturers. Over & Under doubles in .375 H & H magnum are also there but this does not qualify for the real big bore.

Big bore means we are talking of the over 300 grain bullet class, and calibers of .400 and above.

Among what is made and sold these days, 470 Nitro Express is quite popular in Africa by those who can afford an English / EUrope and USA made double.

In single barrel, bolt action rifles, the most popular big bore calibre remains .458 and some other Weatherbee and Remington mags too, but I would reckon none have attained the popularity like the .458 Winchester or .458 Lott.

What is the "bore" size of a 600 NE ? I wonder if they make shotshells for these If they did, we should take some on our next bird hunt, would probably still miss .

All I saw were 458 bolts by CZ...

shahid";p="13517 wrote:Big bore means we are talking of the over 300 grain bullet class, and calibers of .400 and above.

Wrong definition unless you're stuck in John Taylor's era. Today almost all African countries list the 375 as the minimum calibre for hunting dangerous game and that is why it is considered a starting point for big bores. There was a time dduring the black powder era when the 400 was classed as a small bore.

BTW this may be news to you but the Winchester Model 70 is no longer being made though there are rumours that FN are likely to start making it in China. Neither is another old Winchester classic - the lever action Model 94.

Do check what I suggested in my earlier post - the article by Don Heath who is the Chief Examiner for the Zimbabwe Professional Hunters exam is a clear pointer to calibre and gun preferences today among PHs in Africa. If he does not know what they are, then no one else does, considering that every PH who graduates this course has to get his certificate from Don Heath.

Sharief,

The 600 NE is actually .620" in calibre. The 12 bore is .729. Yes, shotgun calibre, almost.

Mehul, Not disagreeing with you,but, on AR forums many people seem to champion .458 or the .458 Lott a lot.There seems to be a renewed interest in the Lott cartridge,especially with the American hunters.

Jefe, care to expand on your statement?I know that you hunted and spent a lot of time in Aferky.Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

Vikram,

Saeed Al Maktoum who owns AR and has shot more buffalo than all the others put together has shot all of them with his custom Dakota in a wildcat 375 round based on the 404 Jeffery case. Saeed owns all of the bigger calibres that have been mentioned here all the way up to 700 Nitro Express, but what he hunts with is known to everyone on those forums.

The difference is as simple as one between theory and experience.

Mehul,

What's about the 'Vincent'? Was that the 700 NE or did he not make a special rifle in almost 1" calibre which he labelled the 'Vincent'?

I should add, for those who have not been on AR, that Saeed does not hunt with the monster bores. The Vincent was just for laughs.

Mack The Knife

Shahid,

Do you feature in any of Saeed's videos titled, 'The Champions'?

Mack The Knife

Vikram,
sorry for the late reply
All i saw / used in 2 yrs were 7mm, 375, 458 Win Mag.
2 guys had 400 cal - a 470 and a 465 if i recall, other wise in the game control etc the 458 win bolt ruled-very plain jane cz/brno.
The handguns were star (mm and 45 ACP by Colt and a slew of S&W revolvers in 38
I am ofcourse talking of the working man's armoury, and the couple of Game control types I met up.
I have this problem with photographs-prefer to enjoy and relive the moment mentally...(sure , am crazy!;)dont have one with the buff-dont have one with my parachuting-have a couple with scuba diving and hang gliding -thanks to friends generosity ;)am a major photography fan AFTER i became a father! I do know I have some surviving snaps of the pre buff hunt taken by my cousin , as we set off. Let me find them...

Mack The Knife,

Mark would correct me if I am wrong - as an AR moderator he has vastly more information about the projects undertaken there than I ever could have - but AFAIK the 1.008 Vincent was a design exercise that was never built. AR do plan on building one someday but nothing has happened since the round was designed three or four years ago.

Cheers!

Mehul,

Thanks for clearing that.

That's one fruity bunch in Dubai.

I think we should get Shahid to shoot the .577 T. Rex. Then IFG can have its own hero on the Champions videos.

Mack The Knife

I am happy with my big bore doubles. 450/400 William Evans by James Purdy.

375 Mag H & H by Gustaph of Germany and my absolute favourite.

.577 REWA by Gibbs. This belongs to a PH friend of mine in South Africa and we used it in Mozambique on Buffalo. The beast was lifted off the ground by that Kynoch round.

For Indian operations too much problem. A girl from Kynoch must come with the Ammo to Heathrow. She will put it in your bag and check it in while she is present.

Back on arrival in India, paper work , declarations. Then on the Delhi Patna flight more arguments with the AIr Sahara guys. Forget it. Not worth the trouble.

The 30-06 is good enough for firing in India.