Indians For Guns

All, here'a a double rifle from Remington in 30-06 and 45-70
about 750 USD. more at the following link.

http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... _specs.asp


Best

Can a scope be mounted on a double rifle?
Pran

Asif,

Thanks for this link. The rifle is actually the Baikal Artemida and Remington have been promising to sell it in the USA for more than three years now. I have posted about this on the Nitro Express forums and quite a few of us should buy samples of this thing this year once it is available in stores. I would like one in 45-70 and I think that would be the top selling chambering in this rifle over here.

Pran,

You can fit a scope on double rifles and many have done that. That said, some traditionalists (your's truly definitely included in the list) believe that fitting a scope to a double is like fitting a roof rack to a Ferrari.

Cheers!

mehulkamdar";p="11166 wrote: some traditionalists believe that fitting a scope to a double is like fitting a roof rack to a Ferrari.

Get the idea
Pran

Mehul,
Thanks. So there is a European connection... besides the 21/23 series shotguns by Winchester any other serious attempt to make a double in USA?
Why is the 45-70 such a popular cartridge in US?
Best
Axx

Pran,

I knew you would agree with me on this. The first time I heard about this from a very prominent cartridge designer in the UK I could not stop laughing. The words still bring a chuckle whenever I remember them.

Asif,

The 45-70 is a big bore round with moderate recoil - it also was a military round and evokes feelings of nostalgia in Americans. I guess it works very well as a "brush buster" too, all of which make it popular.

There are some fine double rifle makers in the USA now. Butch Searcy, Ken Owen of Tennessee (no website as far as I know) and now Tony Galazan are the most prominent. There are other smaller gunmakers as well making doubles though they do not seem to specialise in them on an exclusive basis.

Cheers!

So an affordable double rifle at last.

Mehul,do give your opinion on this rifle when you buy it.Hate the stock though.Has anybody ever used a 45-70 on an African safari and on what sort of game?

penpusher

penpusher,

Experienced hunters like Randy Garrett have shot all of Africa's big game with the 45-70 and custom loaded high powered loads. That said, the relatively low power of the round compared to the African classic rounds makes many wary of it's reputation as a dangerous game round there. I have no idea of this from personal experience but most of the really experienced hunters on AR are derisive in their opinion of the 45-70 for the big 5.

I know the stock is not quite the best but what more can one expect for $ 734? Since that is the retail price, we could expect a store price of about $ 600 to 650 over here. it is less, I am sure, than the price of a spare sight on a Holland and Holland or a Purdey. I shall definitely be buying one and when you come here you would be most welcome to shoot it. You know of my invitation to you...

Cheers, my friend!

45-70 is a very old cartridge, with muzzle energy around 2200-2400 Foot pounds with bullets in the 300-400 grain range. In comparison, the 30-06 factory loaded ammo is 2800-2900 Foot pounds muzzle enegry with 150-180 grain bullets.

So energy wise it is not a cartidge for African game where ME's of 4250+ FP are the norm. Yet the heavy bullet has been known to kill quite effectively at short range in the hands of an expert.

People make hot loads for this cartridge upto the high 3000's FPds range and modern rifles like the Ruger falling block can handle them. These loads might have potential on thin skinned African game.

If the rifle looks good and is accurate, I might be interested to pick one in 45-70, customize it by adding express sights etc. It could be a helluva good rifle at close range for Boar and Deer.
$600-650 gets nothing these days other than B/A rifles without scope.

Satpal

Satpal,
If you get around to getting it and dolling it up, do post in detail, would like to see an American double going through the drill...
Best
Axx

penpusher,

Some game taken with a 45-70 in Africa.

Garrett's ammunition can be shot in the Pedersoli Kodiak double rifles which are already sold in the USA but those are onsiderably higher priced guns. The Remingtonski as people like to call it here will be a nice short range deer and hog gun. I'll definitely have one when they are available. I do have to start buying guns actively from this year onwards.

The Baikal MP 221 `Artemeda`SxS double rifle has been available for several years in Europe but supplies are intermittent. It doesn`t appear in the new Remington catalogue and, as far as I know, is no longer offered by Remington. Frankly their O/U double - the IZH-94 Express - is better and offers the facility to adjust the regulation of the lower barrel by an ingenious screw mechanism.
Mehul knows my opinion of the .45-70 Gov...........an antique anachronism. Its supposed ability as a brushcutter has been proved to be wildly over-rated and there are many calibres that are far better in the role. Under-powered with a short and light for calibre bullet the only reason for the .45-70s continued existence is nostalgia. It comes very close to being my least favourite calibre.

Is IZH 94 avilable in US?

Rgds

Not as far as I know Navi - Mehul did say that Baikal have a USA distribution set-up for some of their products but whether that includes the hunting rifles/shotguns I have no idea. Baikal entered into a really unsatisfactory deal with Remington which means - as far as I can see - that Remington now sell just ONE of their guns - the SPR-18 Kipplauf type single barrel rifle.
The Canadian distributors handle the IZH-94 Express though.............

Grumpy

You are correct Canada has better collection for sale.. now importing from Canada.

Rgds