IOF 30-06 Rifle

[winnie_the_pooh]

I will send you electric version of book

That is an electrifying thought Also TwoRivers seems to me to be very much alive As you would have noticed TwoRivers is in USA.You know,the place where they made those rifles and unlike in India,information is readily available about the guns that they make.You can always counter bore the barrel if you have wear at the muzzle.

[goodboy_mentor]

Vineet: I agree with the opinion of TwoRivers that wear at the muzzle usually comes from too much and incorrect cleaning and the best way to check the accuracy of your rifle is by carefully shooting from a good rest. If the rifle shoots with acceptable accuracy then you should not be worried about this.

If your rifle does not shoot with acceptable accuracy and the rifling is damaged at the muzzle end only, the rifle can be counter bored from a good gunsmith.

[Vineet]

Thanks TwoRivers, Ashok, Winnie and goodboy_mentor for your valuable inputs.
Presently there are SGPC elections going on in Punjab as a result code of conduct is imposed here.
Licensing Authority is not giving permission to delete or add a weapon. I think that's till 20th of this month so I have some time to make the decision.

[TwoRivers]

Ashok: Yes, the M1917 was the British P1914 adapted for the American .30-06 cartridge, Still, the five-groove rifling was retained, dimensioned for .30 caliber. Rifles rebarreled during WWII can have four- or two-groove rifling. The actual bore dimensions for the Springfield rifle were .2995-3015" bore, .3075-.3095" groove diameter.
The point I am making is this: Gauging with a bullet of unknown diameter in this case only tells you that the IOF rifle has a tighter muzzle than the Enfield. It tells you nothing of the actual bore dimensions of either rifle, or the actual diameter of the bullet at the point of contact. You can not assume, that the diameter of the bullet were it contacts the muzzle is .308"/7.82mm. As I mentioned, bore wear at the muzzle comes from improper cleaning. If it causes inaccuracy, it can be easily remedied by counterboring the muzzle by one to two inches. In any case, whether the apparent wear affects accuracy can only be determined by shooting. To get an idea about the barrel, absent proper gauges, it shoud be slugged with a soft lead ball, then carefully measured with a micrometer. With five grooves it requires a special gauge block to determine actual bore and groove diameter. But the condition of the bore will still be apparent.
I am familiar with the book you mention, and don't have a very high opinion of it. As my grandfather used to say, "paper is accepting". You can write anything on it, true or untrue, factual or erroneous. Books like Smith's are usually for ''general consumption", not very carefully researched, nor written by the truly knowledgeable. Cheers.

[Kittu]

thankstwo rivers for informing and knowledge i was not putting that gauging
by a bullet is the best way my point was its the simplest way from where
you can judge the condition of rifle.as you mentioned the bore
dimention of m1917 between .3075 to .3095 is bore diameter of m1903 rifle.the
lands are three times wider then grooves in m1903 grooves can be from .167 to
.177 as you know some tolrance is always allowed in gun
manufaturing.the m1917 was designed in RASF enfield lock middlesex
england.the US adopted the rifle in same rifling way and 5 grooves pattern.this
gave a tigter fit of bullet then m1903 because each groove is apoosite
to land and land and grooves are of same width the half diameter is .300 inch and half is
.310 inch the average being .305 compared to .306 diameter of m1903. as the
the test were conducted these barrels were found to wear too quickly then
m1903 barrel and was decided to give up such type of rifling by US in
future thats why we can see 2 grooves m1917 rifle in world war 2.there
is no place in m1917s barrell from where you can directly measure bore
diameter grooves are cut .005 deep rather then .058 of 303.kindly
correct me if i am wrong i will be happy to learn more from you thanks
again two river

[TwoRivers]

On the contrary, the 5-groove barrels of the M1917 always outlasted the 4-groove Springfield barrels. At one time it was considered to adopt this kind of rifling for all future US military weapons. Two grove barrels were simply a war time expedient to speed up production.
Yes, of course, a bullet can give you a comparison of two muzzles, but that's it. A comparison of two muzzles, nothing more. It tells you nothing of actual dimensions; or whether a barrel will still shoot accurately or even whether it has appreciable wear. Even if you shot the IOF, with a peep sight, and the M1917 off the same bench, the Enfield trigger would put that rifle at a disadvantage against the IOF. Cheers.

[ckkalyan]

Wow! This is getting really interesting guys - hotting up; TwoRivers and ashokgodara.....please keep up the discussion gentlemen - I am observing, absorbing and digesting plenty of varying input....food for thought, and grist for the mill, surely?!

@ winnie_the_pooh lovely repartee as usual

[Kittu]

hi two rivers thanks for your information as you mentioned pushing a soft lead ball trough bore and and carefully examining by a micrometer.i lives near a city called sirsa and it is biggest weapon market in north india.every gunshop in city has its own gunsmith to repair and polish arms but i have never seen a micrometer with them and they have not even heared of micrometer or even dial clippers.they are sitting there make money out of innocent gun owners.once i was told there is a very good and talented gunsmith basically from UP so i went to him and asked to repair my M1garand but he didnt knew on what principle it works.he was telling me that it needs 1.5 tons blowback to function properly and there can be problem with main spring.i left the shop in hurry as he was wasting my time and didnt knew anything.the problem with M1garand when alloted to service person they blocks the gas port and puntures the tube under the barrel of rifle and makes it single shot insteed of semi my point is where in india even gunsmiths dont have enough knowledge then how can a rifle owner do so,i can bet on how much people here know how to use a micrometer and take reading out of a micrometer answer will be only few thanks

[TwoRivers]

Ashok: That is a sad situation. Are there no larger machine shops in your area? They would have to have measuring equipment such as micrometers. That reminds me of my days in Kabul, when the old mechanic rebuilding our Jeep's engine, proudly showed his large simple calipers, remarking that they were an Afghan invention, and no comparable tool existed anywhere else in the world. Ignorance is bliss!

If you could find the charger clips for the M1Garand, you would have an eight-shot manual repeater. But without, it's a single-shot.
Once upon a time you could get them here by the barrel full, as scrap metal. But with the M1 no longer in service, they were finally offered for US$2.00 apiece. Supply and demand rules the market place. Cheers.

[Kittu]

hi guys ior 30-06 rifle barrel is not threaded to receiver its only pushed trough aluminium receiver and tighten with three allen screws.take a long thin screw driver and push it into hole on forhand turn it anti clock wise and pull the forhend after you have unscrewed the screw beneth thr forhand.after removing forhand you can see three allen screws on receiver get them out with alen key and try to lose the receiver by any screwdriver and pull the barrell it will be in your hand and to fix it back follow the reverse action.it has mark on the barrel so you will not have problem in attaching barrel to receiver and bringing it to older position thanks

[TwoRivers]

Not really news. But why do it? Chances are that your zero will be off after you have done it.

[Kittu]

Hi two rivers thats an old pboto after that I have removed the scope rings as suggested by fellow member now i am waiting for warne rings and base and no problem for zero because I was never able to zero it

[ckkalyan]

Hi two rivers thats an old pboto after that I have removed the scope rings as suggested by fellow member now i am waiting for warne rings and base and no problem for zero because I was never able to zero it

The math is absolutely right - Zero Plus Zero = Zero! Good one guys - TwoRivers and ashokgodara!

[Kittu]

hi two rivers these days in north india after heavy rainy season there in not enough space in farms to zero rifle.cotton plants are also grown 5,6 feets and farmers mostly spend their time in farms for collecting cotton crops and grass is also grown high today i searched every corner of my village for a suitable place to test my rifle with newly fitted scope and rings that screws to receiver directly.the place i managed to find was not as suitable but was good to give an idea of test.it was like a hill type(wall made of sand) made of soft sand about 20 feet high as i could not afford to fire a rifle in open with farmers working.i placed a brick about 15 feet high from ground and took the shot in standing position as there was no way that i could have to prone position due to high cotton plant and first shot went little high from 100 yards about 5 inches and after that i took another shot and it was just 1 inch above the brick and scope and rings were in same position that gave me roughly idea it was almost zero and i decided not to fire any more but when we went up the sand hill one fellow who was with me just scrached the bullet hole and surprisngly he recovered copper cover of bullet and some lead piece just 6 inches deeper and same was the case with other bullet it was also fond 6 inches deep in hole.my motive for posting here is why bullet could not penetrate more then 6 inches in sand.i used iof make 30-06 rifle and S&B ammo full metal jacketed spear nose and weight of bullet was 180 grains.i am attaching a photo of both bullets kindly shed some light on matter i will be thankfull to you thanks

[TwoRivers]

Ashok: Sand is a great stopper of bullets, especially so if moist. Don't quite know what you mean by "spear point". Am not aware that S&B made a .30-06 full-jacket in 180 grain weight, the usual full-jacket, copying the military load, is 150 grain. If, however, by "spear point" you mean a jacketed bullet with exposed pointed lead tip, that is exactly what you would expect. Not that that would make all that much difference. Though from your pictures, I would not use that bullet on game. In any case, a full-jacket pointed bullet of 180 grain would be a target bullet, built for accuracy, not penetration.
Being a reloader, I avoid S&B, unless it's a cartridge not made in the US. S&B cases split within a reload or two. Maybe Magtech will teach them what brass to use, and how to make a case that lasts.