IOF's New Sniper Rifle

[eljefe]

ATT: Raj Malhotra
Suggest you let your friends at that defense foundation keep on at the tom foolery going on inthe OFB, they have the will, patience and the fortitude to discuss. We fall far short here, as you can see.
Found another 'gem'
IOFB wants to make a 3 cal, interchangeable , bull pup design because:
5.56mm- conventional warfare, wound your enemy, let the REMF types get busy handling the casualty-ties up the infrastructure
7.62-heavy bullet for the terrs/tangos-because they are hopped on on joyjuice/religion/ brainwashed-keep fighting/spraying bullets till brain dead-therefore heavier cal required-the five seven FN used by the SPG is ONLY used to shoot 'miniaturised' threats- snow white and her pals are now in danger, what?
6.8 for spec ops-like any group/force which is tasked by the SF, suddenly grow kevlar breast/trauma plates with letters of flaming gold, 'SHOOT HERE WITH 6.8 ONLY ' 30 min ago, they were being taken out with 7.62 AK, SLR,and/or INSAS-by the normal Police/ Fauji's, whatever
They just re wrote the doctrine of warfare here!
Bolstered with the confidence of the iffy functioning of their flagship INSAS (didnt the nepali's reject the INSAS a while ago?) comes the confidence to try a moon shot.
IMO-take ONE technology, perfect it, and make it a world beater, instead of 3rd rate bedpan mechanics building 4th grade systems, endangering millions of our FIRST GRADE JAWANS.

[nagarifle]

thanking you sir for your enlightening letter to the top boss. for your info, we do not buy IOFdefects. as we perfer the phooren equipment to be much and far supooorior to IOFdefects. we only entertain them for loyalty sake. as we value our lives we like the phooren stuff of our troops. our hands are tied by our poolitcals masterbates so we now and then use the IOFdefects, remember after kargil we orderd lots of phoorn aks.

thinkng you very much for your consern
Maj.f...up

[Sakobav]

Folks

Here the icing -- all this may be for the following order

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/pi ... niper.html

Agree with eljefe 4th rate stuff by IOF for first grade Jawans ..sad that none of the top brass has gone for better guns..I mean India is buying every thing from next gen jets, radars, tanks to Ships/Subs..

[boris]

Folks

Here the icing -- all this may be for the following order

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/pi ... niper.html

Agree with eljefe 4th rate stuff by IOF for first grade Jawans ..sad that none of the top brass has gone for better guns..I mean India is buying every thing from next gen jets, radars, tanks to Ships/Subs.. [/quota

as far as the MARCOS are concerned IOF hasnt been able to sell much of their junk to them,the navy has been smart in getting the best for their elite force from guns,scopes,thermal imagers and explosive decives.

possibly it could be that the MARCOS is smaller than any infantry regiment so passing their order for MOD wont be a problem compared to the infantry where a large order say for any excellent sniper rifle from europe/USA would drive the bureaucrats crazy and with regret the army accepts the IOF junk.

the army SF units from the para's are also getting what they need the tavors and m4's are being seen but other devices are needed to that an SF unit wants.

-- Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:52 am --

ATT: Raj Malhotra
Suggest you let your friends at that defense foundation keep on at the tom foolery going on inthe OFB, they have the will, patience and the fortitude to discuss. We fall far short here, as you can see.
Found another 'gem'
IOFB wants to make a 3 cal, interchangeable , bull pup design because:
5.56mm- conventional warfare, wound your enemy, let the REMF types get busy handling the casualty-ties up the infrastructure
7.62-heavy bullet for the terrs/tangos-because they are hopped on on joyjuice/religion/ brainwashed-keep fighting/spraying bullets till brain dead-therefore heavier cal required-the five seven FN used by the SPG is ONLY used to shoot 'miniaturised' threats- snow white and her pals are now in danger, what?
6.8 for spec ops-like any group/force which is tasked by the SF, suddenly grow kevlar breast/trauma plates with letters of flaming gold, 'SHOOT HERE WITH 6.8 ONLY ' 30 min ago, they were being taken out with 7.62 AK, SLR,and/or INSAS-by the normal Police/ Fauji's, whatever
They just re wrote the doctrine of warfare here!
Bolstered with the confidence of the iffy functioning of their flagship INSAS (didnt the nepali's reject the INSAS a while ago?) comes the confidence to try a moon shot.
IMO-take ONE technology, perfect it, and make it a world beater, instead of 3rd rate bedpan mechanics building 4th grade systems, endangering millions of our FIRST GRADE JAWANS.

3 cal changer!!! IOF was stupid but have they gone insane,even in US excellent corporations like the LWRC have come up with only 2 cal changer rifles with 7.62 x 51 mm caliber.

in any gun which has cal changer technology with cal change you have to change the barrel length too which means a different barrel,and let alone the 6.8 which was already a remington round the 6.5 grendel round from alexander arms is what has impressed US spec ops and the navy seals the most.last i heard army SF was looking at the grendel round for future orders.

since the cal changer has been brought up here are a few videos related to it:



and this the 6.5 grendel i mentioned



and the 6.8 round

[TwoRivers]

Boris: The 6.8mm was not "already a Remington round". It is based on a shortened, and strengthened, .30 Remington case. It was developed independently by SF personnel, before being standardized by Remington, the only company producing the .30 Remington case.

[xl_target]

Folks

Here the icing -- all this may be for the following order

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/pi ... niper.html

Agree with eljefe 4th rate stuff by IOF for first grade Jawans ..sad that none of the top brass has gone for better guns..I mean India is buying every thing from next gen jets, radars, tanks to Ships/Subs..

Thanks for that link, ngrewal. It looks like they also want to buy .50 cal rifles AND ammunition for the Army (infantry)
Link found on that same page

[MoA]

Scary

[Subal das]

Indian army already had good quality 7.62 rifles, why they need such miracle at all.

Dragunov SVD59 7.62x54mmR
IMI Galil 7.62 Sniper
Heckler & Koch MSG-90
Mauser SP66 7.62mm NATO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_ ... ndian_Army

-- Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:34 pm --

if Navi can spend billions on Gorshkov they sure can afford to buy only best rifles like for example

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sniper-rifl ... r-1-e.html
also there is DSR model in .50

some good grenade launcher can be very useful against pirates on motor boats
that one perhaps the best one in its class, range wise

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/safr/paw-20-neopup-e.html

-- Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:50 pm --

another great weapon for counter ambush, or can be very effective to smoke out enemies from a building.



MGL-140

perhaps we can help to choose right weapons and gadgets, is any one will listen, any there is no good grenade launcher in India forces

[boris]

Boris: The 6.8mm was not "already a Remington round". It is based on a shortened, and strengthened, .30 Remington case. It was developed independently by SF personnel, before being standardized by Remington, the only company producing the .30 Remington case.

thank you sir

[mundaire]

IIRC they do have South African made grenade launchers in the infantry, I forget the make/ model.

Wonder if this SMLE sniper rifle was made with/ without feedback from the chaps who will be using it?

Anyhow, as per a friend who was witness to the Army Marksmanship Unit's initial attempts at the newly (in India) introduced 1,000 metre rifle event - the chaps in the fauji team were completely clueless about the very basics of ballistics, bullet drop etc. Makes you wonder what sort of training the army snipers would be getting, doesn't it?

IIRC the army also had imported Denel rifles from South Africa, but the deal was controversial with allegations of kick-backs etc. - leading to the South African company getting black listed. Now they have the rifles with them, but only 5 rounds of ammo per rifle (which had come along with each rifle), so the rifles are kept clean and ready for action, but no one gets to shoot them as their is not enough ammo and none expected to come any time soon (due to the co. being blacklisted). Guess the less said about the military procurement process in India, the better!

FIRST - we completely kill off the gun owning/ shooting culture in the civilian population
SECOND - we expect people from that same population, when recruited into the security forces, to become magically proficient in the art of long range shooting - with just a modicum of training?

If one were to list the countries which have the best snipers in the world, I'd bet the ones which allow their citizens freer access to guns & shooting facilities would come out on top.

[eljefe]

IIRC the army also had imported Denel rifles from South Africa, but the deal was controversial with allegations of kick-backs etc. - leading to the South African company getting black listed. Now they have the rifles with them, but only 5 rounds of ammo per rifle (which had come along with each rifle), so the rifles are kept clean and ready for action, but no one gets to shoot them as their is not enough ammo and none expected to come any time soon (due to the co. being blacklisted). Guess the less said about the military procurement process in India, the better!

.

In Switzerland, EVERY cop fires 2 mags at the start of EVERY shift. EVERYTIME. Every police station has an indoor range. Does wonders for accidental discharge stats, as compared to our dismal record
So, there is truth in ban guns, make the citizenry gun naive for a generation, then expect the same humans to excel at marksmanship!
Funny why the army cant buy commercial 50 cal rounds for its sniper rifle? unless they screwed up and bought some wildcat 50 Cal DENEL chambered rifles? absolutely possible, given the ease of bribing and the wonderful /terrible reputation our 'procurers' (arent the 'other' procurers a tad more moralistic than these 'civil servants') enjoy- both here and abroad?
Or is it so tough for the famed, world class IOF to make this ammo? they were using 50BMG and must have the dies for it...or, ask me and I'll reload a couple of thousand match quality stuff and give them, at my expense, and compliments to the army sniper program

[Anand]

ask me and I'll reload a couple of thousand match quality stuff and give them, at my expense, and compliments to the army sniper program

and I will help you with the endevour so add a few thousand more so they may get enough practice!
Anand

[nagarifle]

sometimes i wonder if it the case of "johnes next door have so we must get it also"? there are plenty of equipment to be had cheap. alse as the old saying goes " it not the tools but the user, that makes the difference, good tools also help" (ok i made this up)

has the IAF have the anti sniper rifle yet? or has to army got hold of it?

regardless of how much we moan and grumble noting going to change.

[cottage cheese]

Or is it so tough for the famed, world class IOF to make this ammo? they were using 50BMG and must have the dies for it...or, ask me and I'll reload a couple of thousand match quality stuff and give them, at my expense, and compliments to the army sniper program

oi 'jefe...watch where you tread... The bastards will probably make you pay for the 'privilege' of donating stuff...

Awful pricks they are.

[Subal das]

interesting suggestion I found in Khamba's Blog

Top 10 job opportunities for Naxalites

http://www.gkhamba.com/2010/04/top-10-j ... lites.html


Acquisition officer at the DRDO: Naxals extensive skill at acquiring foreign made weapons and existing partnerships with suppliers in enemy countries will be a great resource for the struggling Indian Defence Research and Development Organisation that normally takes 30 years to carve an indigenous Pea Shooter from a tree.
Estimated take home: Lakhs and lakhs in kickbacks plus some Russian hookers