Interesting O/U repeater

[TwoRivers]

Highness, quicker reload. That's all. Plus, "nobody else has got one". Not to forget unlimited discretionary funds. (Always nice to have.) Cheers, Saar.

[Vikram]

Part of the reason you can do this with a blaser is the action, which is quite unlike a normal bolt. Its more of a straight pull.

A .700 double rifle in bolt action.An absolute example of inventive genius.




Made by Fuchs (that's what he is called) and Szessei of Germany.

http://www.fuchs-fine-guns.com/

Best-
Vikram

[Bespoke]

A .700 double rifle in bolt action.An absolute example of inventive genius.

Interesting, yes, but it is not genius by any standards. A few years ago a professional hunter in Africa lost his fingers when this thing blew in half.

It’s a good toy to play with at home but for the African bush it’s too heavy and clumsy to carry around all day.

If you’re caught up in a bad situation, you fire two shots BLAM! BLAM! and work on the bolt and, guess what, there’s a feeding problem. And then what do you have in hand? A very heavy stick with very high inertia.At the same time an experienced double rifle shooter would be able to reload a breach loading double rifle with almost the same speed IMO even faster. My uncle happens to know a chap who shot three partridges in flight back in the days with a single barrelled Westley Richards shotgun with cartridges held between his fingers. He was very careful how he placed the cartridges between his fingers, keeping in mind that the distance would be more in later shots. Now let’s say in a dangerous situation if I had to choose between superior speed and high probability, I would chose later. Just my two cents.

[MoA]

Well I guess for ultimate reliability in Africa what is needed is a Automatic or Semi Auto Double.

I do know Orlikeon and Zenitnaya Samokhodnaya Ustanovka make excellent guns in this category which will quite safely take any animal in Africa.

Zenitnaya 23
The orlikeon 20 double

[Vikram]

A .700 double rifle in bolt action.An absolute example of inventive genius.

Interesting, yes, but it is not genius by any standards. A few years ago a professional hunter in Africa lost his fingers when this thing blew in half.

It’s a good toy to play with at home but for the African bush it’s too heavy and clumsy to carry around all day.

If you’re caught up in a bad situation, you fire two shots BLAM! BLAM! and work on the bolt and, guess what, there’s a feeding problem. And then what do you have in hand? A very heavy stick with very high inertia.At the same time an experienced double rifle shooter would be able to reload a breach loading double rifle with almost the same speed IMO even faster. My uncle happens to know a chap who shot three partridges in flight back in the days with a single barrelled Westley Richards shotgun with cartridges held between his fingers. He was very careful how he placed the cartridges between his fingers, keeping in mind that the distance would be more in later shots. Now let’s say in a dangerous situation if I had to choose between superior speed and high probability, I would chose later. Just my two cents.

Bespoke,

I would love to know more about the incident wherein it blew up.Must have been very nasty.Any idea what caused the accident? I still think it is a genius of a design.Niggles could be worked out but the concept is very interesting and ingenious. At least it is an example of stretching the limits,thinking out of the box etc,.

Would I carry it into the African bush?I guess not.I am happy with a .416 Rigby bolt rifle or a big bore NE double rifle. I,however, would love to own it and shoot it occasionally.

Best-
Vikram

[shooter]

My uncle happens to know a chap who shot three partridges in flight back in the days with a single barrelled Westley Richards shotgun with cartridges held between his fingers. He was very careful how he placed the cartridges between his fingers, keeping in mind that the distance would be more in later shots.

Can you please elaborate.

The way i know is to hold the cartridges is in the first and second interdigital spaces of the hand holding the foreend (left hand for righthanders).
This gives one easy accesability and hence quicker realoding. Ditto for double rifles.

How does it matter holding them keeping in mind the distance is more in later shots?

[Bespoke]

Vikram,

I am not sure what went wrong but he lost most of the fingers on one hand and there was a court case between him and the manufacturer.

Shooter,

He was shooting winged game, so the later shots would be going a greater distance than the first. The shot size will therefore be bigger as the target would usually be flying away from you.

[z375]

Well I guess for ultimate reliability in Africa what is needed is a Automatic or Semi Auto Double.

this does not bode well...MoA, you are totally off track with that guess, autos and semi-autos are best left for the range and are safe when you're behind a bench, they have absolutely no place in tall grass and mopani scrub. There's a real good reason as to why most who hunt in Africa carry a good CRF bolt gun or perhaps even a double, nostalgia and romanticism aside, doubles and bolt-rifles have saved many, many jackasses who've been smart enough to carry them along or have been fortunate enough to have hired a good PH to save their skin when things have gone horribly wrong. The key here is reliability, time after time, you want a gun you can trust your life with and that will get the job done whilst making sure that you retain all body parts, lest you like going back home from a vacation in separate little freezer bags! And the last thing you'd want to hear when your at bad-breath range with a buffalo or a ten-ton pachyderm...is "click". A wounded, charging prairie dog can be safely laid to rest with even a .22. Nuff said..

[shooter]

The shot size will therefore be bigger

Oh i get it. What you mean is what shot size cartridges he would hold rather than how he would hold them. I agree. The ideal way for a quick reload is a team of loaders but for mere mortals like most of us, hold the cartridges between the fingers. Mind you,bothstyles take a lot of practice to besmooth and quick. Shot size is a personal preference.

The key here is reliability, time after time, you want a gun you can trust your life with and that will get the job done whilst making sure that you retain all body parts, lest you like going back home from a vacation in separate little freezer bags! And the last thing you'd want to hear when your at bad-breath range with a buffalo or a ten-ton pachyderm...is "click".

[winnie_the_pooh]

z375,

No reason why a well made semi-auto should not be reliable.

I am sure a pair of doubles and a bearer to carry the other one should be a lot cheaper than these 'engineering marvels'

Bespoke,

Interesting.Since he had lost "most of his fingers" how did he hold the cartridges 'between' his fingers? I am assuming he had lost more than two.Just curious.Also since shot pattern would be determined by the choke,I still do not get it.

[eljefe]

Aha, so we have the beginning of a semi auto Vs CRF dust off... will be good to know more. I did meet up with a couple of guys who had a CRF Vs non CRF dust off and they tried,demo'ed and filmed both, in myriad positions to show the fav weatherby fed as well as the even more fav mauser. HOwever ,there was an actual annual PH testing of Bolt action rifles, floating around somewhere-lemme find it, which puts a lot of stuff in very poor light-under real field conditions. need less to add, no doubles were tested...somewhere in Zimbabwe or S Africa, this real life PH and Rifle test

[Bespoke]

Oh i get it. What you mean is what shot size cartridges he would hold rather than how he would hold them. I agree. The ideal way for a quick reload is a team of loaders but for mere mortals like most of us, hold the cartridges between the fingers. Mind you,bothstyles take a lot of practice to besmooth and quick. Shot size is a personal preference.

I agree it takes a lot of practice for both styles. The team of loaders was the reason why shotgun manufacturers produced pairs and trios. Lord Ripon, regarded as the most famous shot of all time, apparently shot twenty-eight pheasants in a minute and was reported to have had seven dead birds in the air at the same time(He was bit of a self promoter). He always preferred hammer guns and shot with a trio of guns

z375,

No reason why a well made semi-auto should not be reliable.

I am sure a pair of doubles and a bearer to carry the other one should be a lot cheaper than these 'engineering marvels'

Bespoke,

Interesting.Since he had lost "most of his fingers" how did he hold the cartridges 'between' his fingers? I am assuming he had lost more than two.Just curious.Also since shot pattern would be determined by the choke,I still do not get it.

A semi-auto double is certainly feasible but I would not like to put the gun bearer out of a job,but African hunting is about a lot more than the utility of a gun. It’s about the aura and the surroundings, the smell of grass and trees, the sun and the nostalgia. There’s nothing better than a classic double rifle in your hand to make you feel all that.

I am talking about two different people in the post.yes the shot pattern depends upon the choke of the barrels but shot size and distance are the factors in consideration here my friend

[shooter]

Lord Ripon, regarded as the most famous shot of all time, apparently shot twenty-eight pheasants in a minute and was reported to have had seven dead birds in the air at the same time(He was bit of a self promoter).

Thats cool! i have just written a post about him in another thread (including this fact)

[Vikram]

Lord Ripon, regarded as the most famous shot of all time, apparently shot twenty-eight pheasants in a minute and was reported to have had seven dead birds in the air at the same time(He was bit of a self promoter).

Thats cool! i have just written a post about him in another thread (including this fact)

Guys, I am not doubting your words.But, I am just trying to figure out how this could have been accomplished unless he shot a bunch of them with two shots or something similar.Any explanation of how this remarkable feat was accomplished by anyone? Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

[winnie_the_pooh]

A semi-auto double

Who said a semi-auto double?A semi auto 'single barrel' offers you what a double does,a quick second shot or a third or fourth