BSA .30-06 rifle

[shahid]

So that implies that a .303 British SPorting round rifle would never had made its way in India except perhaps with officers of the British Army if they had brought it along with them.

[mehulkamdar]

Shahid,

What exactly is a "303 sporting round chambering?" The 303 chambering is basically the British service chambering. The military ammunition had a spitzer FMJ bullet to comply with the Berne and later Geneva convention regulations. Sporting ammunition has PSP or RN bullets loaded into the same case. The chambering is the same. There was an experimental and shorter lived 303 Magnum chambering which had nothing to do with this or the Lee Speed.

There were NO 315 IOF rifles ever made in the UK. The round is basically an Indian invention. Pure and simple. If some old Enfield actions that came into India as service rifles were rebarreled and restocked as 315s, that is a different matter. These could have been actions made by BSA, by Savage, by Parker Hale, by Fazakerley or whoever. During the days of the Raj the British would have brought in rifles from any of their factories around the world that they chose to bring them from. And, at the end of the war and in 1947, there were especially large numbers of these knocking around in India, a country where the police and army carried as many Lee Enfields if not more than the British army did. The actions and furniture had to be used somewhere or destroyed considering the huge numbers of these guns built and it is likely that some were recycled as 315 sporters. Short of that, your claims are silly at best, repetitively ridiculous at worst.

[shahid]

BSA made rifles in .315 calibre, for rimmed cartridges. If they made rifles, some British maker would have made cartridges for it as well.

Later IOF made .315 rifles for civilian use modelled on this very rifle. The BSA made rifle was a more refined and better finished version.

Mehul you are free to make arguments, for or counter, but I would remind you to mind the language used.

If you have a different point of view on a subject, you may comment on it, but you cannot call someone else's comment as silly.

Mind you, you are not the complete authority on Guns and rifles, a kind of world wide guru on the subject, though you do have an interest in the subject.

For calling my comments silly, I expect an apology from you.

Thank you.

[shahid]

Well I have seen that rifle by BSA with my own eyes in person. So its true and Mehul is wrong. Period.

[Risala]

Chill out guy's,light hearted banter is fine,but this is kinda of gettin personal.
Just meant to be a forum where we share experiences,have fun and move on, perhaps along the way make some friends.
Cheers
Sanjay

[Grumpy]

No British ammunition manufacturer has ever made .315 cartridges.
As I said, BSA MIGHT have rebarrelled some Lee Enfields in .315 to order but they didn`t make any because they built NO Lee Enfields post war. The rifle ( rifles ? ) that you saw might have been BSA built examples rebarrelled in India which is most likely.
Just remember as well that there was an Indian company fobbing itself off as `BSA`...... not too mention a once thriving industry in engraving fraudulent details on guns/rifles.

[danish21]

As I said, BSA MIGHT have rebarrelled some Lee Enfields in .315 to order but they didn`t make any because they built NO Lee Enfields post war.

Hi Grumpy
I don't have as much knowledge as you guys have but i want to tell you one thing that there is BSA .315 rifle and one very dear friend of mine has one, i can also post you its pics, but IOF .315 rimmed cartridges is not used in that rifle, only 8mm (8x57mm) rimless cartridges are used and in india we refer to 8mm (8x57mm) as .315 bore. But that rifle is 8mm (8x57mm) mauser action and when we buy the cartridges for that rifle we have to ask for .315 mauser cartridges instead of saying 8x57mm.

Danish

[Grumpy]

Thanks for that insight Danish. Looks like we might be getting somewhere now. Is the rifle British proved as .315" ? If so, it might be the case that the 8x57 was sometimes known as the .315" just as the 7x57 was often proved and referred to as the .275. Unfortunately I can find no confirmation of this.......and there is the added complication that even the earliest versions of the 7.92x57 ( 8x57 ) Mauser had an actual bullet diameter of .318" ( - later and current versions .323". )
Is the rifle an actual Mauser action or similar to a Mauser action ?
If you can oblige sometime I`d really like to see some photographs of the rifle and all markings.

[danish21]

Thanks for that insight Danish. Looks like we might be getting somewhere now.

I hope now the fight will come to an end

Is the rifle British proved as .315" ?

No idea regarding this but i don't think that the rifle is british proved as .315 cause we indians have given this name .315 to 8x57mm mauser.

Is the rifle an actual Mauser action or similar to a Mauser action ?
If you can oblige sometime I`d really like to see some photographs of the rifle and all markings.

The rifle is mauser action. I'll send you the rifle's pic witthin 24 hours

Danish

[Grumpy]

Many thanks Danish - I look forward to seeing them.

[shahid]

Ah there an explaination and confirmation seems to be coming.

As for .303 British Sporting round, I guess I have some info in some books, just got to get round to finding that information and posting it. In person I have never seen a .303 sporting round although. Probably it is rimless like most other rifle cartridges.

Now as for the Indian .315, from where did this action design come ? Probably from BSA. If yes then too must have built rifles for RImmed cartridges in whatever calibre , even if only rook rifle calibres based on this action. It was not invented for IOF alone or was it ?

[dev]

Hey Shaid,

I remember one gun dealer in Delhi telling me that the 315 was an 8mm magnum. And so I went away murmuring 8mm magnum to myself and feeling good that I could have some blasting power on my license but haven't got me a 315 yet I make belief with my bolt action air rifle instead . Anyway in Delhi the animals likely to charge at you are the call centre sumos and a few wayward oxen.

Regards,

Dev

Ah there an explaination and confirmation seems to be coming.

As for .303 British Sporting round, I guess I have some info in some books, just got to get round to finding that information and posting it. In person I have never seen a .303 sporting round although. Probably it is rimless like most other rifle cartridges.

Now as for the Indian .315, from where did this action design come ? Probably from BSA. If yes then too must have built rifles for RImmed cartridges in whatever calibre , even if only rook rifle calibres based on this action. It was not invented for IOF alone or was it ?

[shahid]

This Mauser action 8 mm Mauser calibre has always been there. It is different. It is a rimless cartridge with a 170 grain bullet. THis has a Muzzle velocity of 2360 fps.

There is 8 x 57 JS Mauser, this has a 165 grain bullet with a m velocity of 2,850 fps.

Other common 8 mm cartridges are 32 Winchester special - 170 grains
8 mm Remington Mag with 2 bullet weights, 185 gr and 220 gr.

THis Indian .315 / 8 mm is a rimmed cartridge with a 244 grain bullet. It is a low velocity, heavy bullet, low range rifle.

What was this cartridges origin ? Was it BSA ? In all probability yes. What is the action ? A direct derivative of Lee Enfield.

If not BSA then from where did IOF acquire this design ?

I have heard a conversation from Indian shooters in the 1990s that during the 1970s IOF had imported some 7.62 mm NATO barrels and rebored them to .315. OK. But what about the origins of the action ? That still leaves a question.

[mundaire]

I have heard a conversation from Indian shooters in the 1990s that during the 1970s IOF had imported some 7.62 mm NATO barrels and rebored them to .315. OK. But what about the origins of the action ? That still leaves a question.

I too have heard rumours of IOFB reboring old SMLE (7.62/ .303) rifles and restocking them etc. to produce (at least the initial batches) of the .315 IOF rifle. How far this is true, I really don't know.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Grumpy]

There were also rumours that when Ishapore production of the MKIII* ( 2A ) began sometime after 1963 that barrels were imported but never any proof and it is considered unlikely. Whether or not 7.62 barrels were imported for reboring to .315 is unknown but it would seem extremely improbable.......as much as anything because it would have been unnecessary with plenty of surplus 2A rifles being available and because it would have made more sense if barrels already bored to .315 had been purchased.
BSA didn`t develope or invent the .315 cartridge. BSA didn`t produce any Lee Enfields post WWII. Centrefire rifle production post WWII was limited to the commercial Majestic, Monarch/CF2 actions.