Big Medicine.

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

The 378 is iknown to be a particularly hard kicker and the rifles that Weatherby made for this round always had a muzzle break. Perhaps, the Schulz and Larsen did not, hence the severe recoil. Since you consider it the second worst recoiling gun you have shot, I wonder what was the worst?

Mehul

[eljefe]

Mehul,
The worst -honours shared between a Pre 70 winchester 375 and a Mauser 458 bolt (interchangeable barrels for 30-06)
The 458 I used in S Africa was a CZ (i think) and was pretty ok.

Grumpy,
I would love to see the No.4 converted into a 270 or a zippy caliber-will even settle for your fav 6.5 x 54mm...Only as long as its in No.4!
That was a bit of overkill? 220gr?
yes I firmly believe that size matters -before Godzilla the movie came along- and would rather use a big heavy bullet.However , there is a particular fondness for the 300 Wea mag-wouldnt want to use anything bigger than that in the Weatherby's!
Best
Axx

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

I'm surprised that you found a Model 70 WInchester in 375 and a Mauser (I'm presuming it was a Model 66 and not a 98 because you say that it had an interchangeable barrel in 30-06) in 458 kick harder than the 378 Weatherby. The 378 is a vastly more powerful round than both these and the Model 70 actually has a very comfortable stock for most people.

Just shows how stock shapes etc can affect different people differently - after Grumpy's post about the problem that he has with the Smellie's recoil.

Cheers!

Mehul

[Grumpy]

The Weatherby .378 mag makes appreciably more ME than a .458 mag as Mehul says.........the .458 being a comparitive pussycat. The .378 Weatherby mag has an evil reputation for producing both hard ( ! ) recoil and diabolical blast.
You have a `soft spot` for the .300 Weatherby mag Asif ? Like most of the Weatherby mags it produces appalling muzzle blast. I can see the point of the .300 Win mag as it is a good,long range, flat shooting cartridge but the .300 Weatherby mag is another of Roys` OTT calibres - IMO that is. Plenty would disagree.
A 220 gr bullet from a 30-06 is a lttle excessive for Fallow you think ?
Um, er......... Yes, of course it is. I have to admit that I picked up the wrong box of ammo.........It was supposed to be a box of Winchester 165 gr. Even that could be reasonably considered OTT for Fallow.
My `favourite` 6.5 is the 6.5x55 Swedish. The 6.5x54 M-S is confined to Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles - I`ve never seen anything else chambered for it. Not much to choose between the two calibres as far as ballistics is concerned.

[eljefe]

Why do you think I learnt to lip read?the muzzle blast out of a 300 Wea Mag surely does strange things to the human body
Mehul, I have used a 7.92 Mauser too and the 458/30-06 combo was a strange bolt configuration-if dim memory serves me, more like a Sauer receiver/bolt very squared off lines, bolt riding well forward of the trigger group-Definitely not the classical mauser.
I read some very impressive figures for the 6.5 Swedish Grumpy, excuse the typo-I did mean that one...Well, almost any decent caliber in a NO.4 Smellie would be my ideal, in the current scenario-200000 rupees for a CZ 458 right here in India.Jonah will bear me witness!!
Best
Axx

[mehulkamdar]

the 458/30-06 combo was a strange bolt configuration-if dim memory serves me, more like a Sauer receiver/bolt very squared off lines, bolt riding well forward of the trigger group-

As I guessed - a Mauser 66. A fine rifle though it was a Mauser only in name, designed by Walter Gehmann. Does someone in India have one?

Grumpy,

Steyr made some of their later rifles in the 6.5x54 and even had a Pro Hunter called the "Anniversary Model" in this chambering in 2003 to commemorate the 1903 Mannlicher Schonauer rifle. It's a pity they didn't build it on the original M-S action.

Cheers,

Mehul

[eljefe]

Do both take the 140 grainer? The swede and the M-S?
Yes Mehul, The combo was in India-test fired it at 50 m and swore never to try a bolt heavy again-this was after a previous oath ( and sutures on the eyebrow )about the 375 Win bolt... then came the 458 in 1995-plain jane utilitarian, 5 zero and 3 on game.Been a double fan since then, however , wouldnt call myself monogamous when it comes to guns-will try out the next heavy that comes along and this time take pics and post!
Best
Axx

[Grumpy]

Mehul, the reason that Steyr ceased production of the Mannlicher Schoenauer was because of a `tragedy` ( assumed to be a fire ) in the M-S section of the factory around 1967 which destroyed the tooling - otherwise the rifle would probably still be in production today.
Asif, the `standard` bullet for the 6.5x55 was the 156 gr although 140 gr are available - the lightest weight that I`ve seen is a 120 gr. The `standard` bullet for the 6.5x54 M-S ( and 6.5x54R/6.5x53R ) was 160 gr.

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

I have heard a number of experts suggest that Steyr's "fire" explanation was completely concocted. Yes, there was a fire, but the main reason why they didn;t resume production of the Mannlicher-Schonauer was that the rifle required a tremendous amount of hand fitting and careful tempering of the various parts to different levels. They were just not interested. It is certainly no coincidence that hardly any time after this happened they had their cheapened 69 action out for both sporting rifles as well as for the now iconic sniper rifle, the SSG 69.

The SBS is, perhaps, a positive development, as it is a superior action in design to the 69, or so some experts suggest. That said, the Eric Schoder business now manufactures the Mannlicher Schonauers again using the same traditional methiods that Steyr used to build these beautiful rifles. Schoder was one of the last M-S division employees and he decided to use his skills to bring these guns back. I would like to buy one someday.

Cheers,

Mehul