Why did India drop an INSAS follow on, go for a fussy American SIG and a tired Russian AK ?

[timmy]

https://newsmilitary.com/ar-15-patent-t ... nic-rifle/

https://thegunzone.com/when-did-the-ar- ... nt-expire/

https://danieldefense.com/wire/understanding-the-ar15

[Tosh.S.Das]

Thanks, Timmy.
Indeed, as I noted - derivative.
"Modifying the AR-15 design may still be subject to copyrights, trademarks, and other intellectual property protections."
and
"Individual components or parts of the AR-15 may still be protected by patents if they meet the requirements for patentability."
But hardly in need of arduous legal advice. And not like FAL in '60.

[arghya555]

AR15 design licenses expired in 1977. There are hundreds of companies and individuals with a CNC mill and cutting codes make AR15 lower receivers in the US. The barrel and handguards require a lot more machinery.

I am sure if OFB wants, they can start making them. I don't understand the obsession with pistons though. DI systems run dirty but they are easy to maintain due to simpler design than short/long piston systems.

India Times reported several problems with INSAS rifles. There were apparent case head failures, barrel explosions (squib? headspace issues?) - all pointing towards armorer lack of skills.

OFB also seems to ignore QA with magazines. Mag followers can be finicky and springs lose tension after repeated usage. If your mag follower does not work properly, you will have FTF problems.

The videos I saw of INSAS problems in YouTube seemed to be FTF problems.

Anything you heard / read about these internal armorer type problems?

By the way, I would like to understand why 6.5 Grendel? Grendel and Creedmoor are not the most common of rounds and 7.62 NATO seems like a better round. Steel tip (M80A1 ball ammo) ones seem to be quite devastating.

[Tosh.S.Das]

Arghya 555, thanks. Interesting qs. A shot at some answers.
DI vs piston is like the sex of angels. No definitive answer. Each has pluses and minuses, depending who you ask and when.
Magazine indeed, seems there were many issues. From springs to the lip, AKM's magazine was upfront designed to be as close to foolproof as possible. I wonder if that wasn't /isn't still rectifiable easily.
6.5 Grendel only because its ballistic chart (at end of video) shows close enough performance to 7.62 NATO at ranges that count, and well above not just 5.56 but 7.62 Russian too. The low KE of 5.56 at >300 yards was one of the reasons for choice of 7.62 and SIG. Other side, recoil is much less (also in chart). Full auto 7.62x51 is quite a new thing (again). In FAL it was a reason for the regulator /adjustable gas system. There are also (unconfirmed) rumours about resonance and brain pan injuries with that many joules and auditory energy near the head. Third and most importantly, INSAS lower can be mated to 6.5 Grendel.
I am sure some others will have more on all this.

[eljefe]

I have read that the new assault rifles by SSS defense are also DI. No idea of user trials and outcomes.

[Tosh.S.Das]

Eljefe, from what I can see on their Website, SSS looks good. What I like most is that they are looking at a small arms Solution - the rifle, but ammo too, across a reasonably comprehsive range, and optics as well. Right now, digital optics is a huge area of interest, and as it is software driven, well - India could do a lot there. I have used digital NV systems, and in one-on-one real life situations, they have a lot going for it.
Still, I hope the tech transfer to SSS is 100 pc. Depending on Germans (who can be VERY mixed up about things military) can be a risky bet. Somewhere down the line, we will always need Indian autonomy or critical value add for the tech supplier too, to build two way dependency.

[casual shooter]

Arghya 555, thanks. Interesting qs. A shot at some answers.
DI vs piston is like the sex of angels. No definitive answer. Each has pluses and minuses, depending who you ask and when.
Magazine indeed, seems there were many issues. From springs to the lip, AKM's magazine was upfront designed to be as close to foolproof as possible. I wonder if that wasn't /isn't still rectifiable easily.
6.5 Grendel only because its ballistic chart (at end of video) shows close enough performance to 7.62 NATO at ranges that count, and well above not just 5.56 but 7.62 Russian too. The low KE of 5.56 at >300 yards was one of the reasons for choice of 7.62 and SIG. Other side, recoil is much less (also in chart). Full auto 7.62x51 is quite a new thing (again). In FAL it was a reason for the regulator /adjustable gas system. There are also (unconfirmed) rumours about resonance and brain pan injuries with that many joules and auditory energy near the head. Third and most importantly, INSAS lower can be mated to 6.5 Grendel.
I am sure some others will have more on all this.

If 7.62 was the choice, we had licence and expertice in FN FAL. our brilliant engineers at IOF or not so brilliant in private secter could have improved on that... or was it more of a question of kick backs..Indian army guys have this habit of rejecting any thing made in Indiaa...