Rodda double rifle with Indian writing? on the lid

[astronomy.domaine]

The third line(2nd pic), apparently, refers to cartridges for the weapon. 3rd line 1st word is "ko"(to), 2nd word is "kartoos"(cartridges). Translated sentence in context may read : cartridges to (the above mentioned gun).... Can't figure out the last 2 letter word. The text seems to denote the contents of the box and may have been used for cataloging or warehousing.

[anubhav_rulez]

In first photo its written Snider dunali Mananiya Raja Udaisen ji ko...Rest I cant figure out, but its like Gifted to King Udaisen ji.

[Vikram]

Excellent, guys.Please keep them coming.

[Ahmaq]

So you don't need the translation of the third picture?

[drcollector]

Sirs,

I would like to open up a message that I started in 2015. I then asked members of Indians for Guns for help in translating the writing on the top of an oak and leather gun case that holds an R. B. Rodda .577 Snider double rifle. A kind gentleman wrote to me and said that the writing appears to
be "gifted to King Udaisen Ji." I have been unable to find a person with that name. To make the quest even more interesting the bottom of the rifle
stock is stamped with the letter "K". I found out from a British gun maker that some guns left India in the 50s and 60s were stamped with the
initial of of the territory ( such as "K" for Karnataka ) from which they left India. It might be possible that The Maharajah of Mysore might
have owned this rifle at that time since he lived in Karnataka. I have just found out from one of your members that Udaisen is most likely
spelled "Udai Sen". I would be grateful if someone on this Board could help me solve this mystery.

Best Regards,

Larry Davidson

[shooter]

Dear larry,
Thanks for re opening this thread again. Interesting pics.

I am only answering from my personal experience.
The writing , black ink, the font etc corresond beautifully with the edwardian-georgian era. I have some family records dating back to that era and it is as if the same person has written it (they havent but it is an example).

The word "ko" means means "to" in hindi as in give to or gift to or go to. However in earstwhile rajputana and malwa of central provinces it also means belonging to (if the person was using the local dialect) . Since the word is "raja" and the script is devnagri, then statistically speaking there are high chances that the inscription could also mean that the gun belongs to "raja udaisen". Again the name udaisen is a common name in royalty in the said areas in that era.
With just that name it is difficult to pin point the individual as the title raja could be for a king but alternately of a second or third son of a king or a prominent nobleman (like queens second son has a title duke and so does prince william but they are not necessarily dukes but royalty).

Also after independence a lot of agents visited india and bought guns from royal families and prominent noble families. Many of them eventually made their way to USA.

I will try my best to try to shortlist people with title udaisen in that era but it might take time.
If there are any other details you might have, please do not hesitate to share with us via this thread or pm.

Best of luck.

[drcollector]

Thanks so much for your help. I have a friend who was able to buy a large number of double rifles in the 1960s from a British gun maker that imported the guns from India. They told my friend that letter stamps and sometimes numbers were stamped on the bottom of the stocks to determine
where in India the guns came from. However, it was not unusual that when very valuable guns were involved they were able to negotiate
with some government officials to let those guns out without the location markings. Again, thank you for taking your time to help me solve
this riddle. My brother has a Rodda 16 bore Howdah Rifle that is mostly covered with gold inlaid engraving. It does not have any letters or numbers on the bottom of the stock, but does have the initials W A K P in gold on the pistol grip. Are you familiar with a maharajah or Nizam with those initials?

Best Regards,
Larry Davidson

[Sakobav]

Larry
Could you send a picture of the gun itself and where did yo buy it
Good luck
best

[drcollector]

Sir,

I bought the rifle at a firearms auction in Illinois a few years ago. I don't know how to ad a photograph. Please advise me how to ad a photo and I will
send it to you.
Best Regards,
Larry

[shooter]

Dear Larry
Wakp sounds like the initials of nawab. Firstly not many Hindu names start with a w. Secondly the k in the initials would be for khan.
For example the name could be something like wasim Ali Khan pataudi.
Afaik no nawab in pataudi family had name starting with a w but it could be a second son or a cousin. ( for example)

[Vikram]

Here are the photos of the rifle that Larry sent.